Level 50 Dungeon Level Syncs

[Avraym]

Me. Constantly in WoW. I HATED leveling up, and someone brings their max level buddy and say "Don't attack or get any agro I'm pulling the entire dungeon to the end and AOE'ing everything down." /sigh What a boring run this is gonna be. I hated "The Plow".

This isn't really the issue that you make it out to be.

For those of you who don't know, WoW has a cut off gap level for leveling so that you can't "duty finder" queue almost any lower dungeons at max level.

You can however, manually run into an instance with friends and this is fine, given that you know even before entering the dungeon what you are getting into.

I think that this is actually one of the things WoW does well.

It doesn't allow you to queue with high geared players while leveling ect, but it doesn't stop you from premaking a group and doing whatever you feel like.

At the end of the day, if someone wants to smash through Satasha in their shiny gears, why shouldn't they be allowed to?

[Aerowaffle]

The problem with WoW's method of cutting off most of the dungeons at max level, is that those low level dungeons are then hardly run.

If the goal of someone running the roulette is to farm the rewards for completing it, wouldn't a stricter iLvl sync be fine if the quantity of the rewards for said roulette were increased as well (since the dungeon would be harder)?

For those who want to be able to trash the dungeon because they want their hard work to show, I thought that was the point of the high end-game content? The entry level-50 content is filled with ... entry level-50 players. Many entry level-50 players actually want to experience the dungeon when they run it, because that's the kind of environment they're use to from dungeons pre lvl50. In the pre-lvl50 dungeons, groups aren't pulled 5 at a time (that would cause a wipe easily).

I believe playing a dungeon in the roulette should be at least a fraction of a challenge, you're getting a reward for it right? A group speed-running through a dungeon involves pulling half the dungeon, aoe'ing them down, burning down boss (avoiding 75% of the mechanics due to excess dps), then repeat. That isn't a challenge, that's a loading bar.

[Tiggy]

It would feel like a giant waste of time getting better gear if every piece of content had level syncs. This can easily be overdone to the point where upgrading each patch becomes pointless.

However, an OPTIONAL level sync for OPTIONAL challenges with perhaps a small reward boost would be a nice trade off.

[Kosmos992k]

No other game punishes you for leveling up and no one has complained about an over geared high level one shotting things in a dungeon....ever. You should learn your class before you enter dungeons in my opinion...that's what the big ol open world is for. I practice pulling and healing in between dungeons, not when I get in them.

1. You're not being punished, the level sync allows the content to remain somewhat relevant and prevents high level players from destroying the game for lower level players. Level sync is/was one of the most attractive features of this game for me as I have played many a game where high level players made playing a nightmare because they could totally overgear everything. Perhaps you don't remember the outcry when Atma first became a thing and parties of level 50 players (even level sync'd) in FATE were basically obliterating FATE before leveling characters could get a look in. Imagine how much worse that would have been without the level sync in place.

2. Your suggestion that people should learn their class in open world content before venturing into dungeons is complete crap. Apart from the self serving nature of the suggestion since it keeps those players still learning out of your self important path, it's also total nonsense, you can't learn your class properly playing open world content. Part of learning your class/job is learning your role in a party. That is something that can only be learned in dungeons.

But, you can't learn that in any content where overgeared players destroy the game balance - which is precisely the problem with the negligible ilevel sync already in place on the level 50 dungeons. There is no game balance. All that work of balancing content and jobs/classes is utterly wasted when overgeared players can ignore all mechanics, pull the entire dungeon and AOE the entire trash pack into the dirt. If all you want is speed runs and a gear dispenser, perhaps you ought to be playing GW2?

It would feel like a giant waste of time getting better gear if every piece of content had level syncs. This can easily be overdone to the point where upgrading each patch becomes pointless.

However, an OPTIONAL level sync for OPTIONAL challenges with perhaps a small reward boost would be a nice trade off.

How would it be a waste. Level sync preserves the relevance of the content. Right now, for a player in end-game gear how much content left in the game presents anything but a trivial challenge? What % of the total game provides any level of challenge to your skill as a player? Level sync and ilvl sync are there to *try* to preserve what little challenge is left. It's not about you and your gear, it's not about making obtaining your new shiny gear feel like a waste. It's about making sure that the game content stays at least somewhat relevant. Right now, for anyone with gear from the current patch only content (non raid) from the current and prior patch really provides much in the way of a challenge. The rest can be run with minimal effort.

The giant waste here is the waste of decent content because of a total lack of game balance due to players vastly overgearing the content.

[Charisma]

Sit back and relax, hmm, "why am I playing this game? To watch other players do what I should be doing?. Solo tanking and healing in the open world, big challenge there.

Do you really think any fresh 50 cares about something like that? They are mostly like "cool" getting over it, and after a week they have the gear to hold aggro (dont see any reason why a fresh 50 dps or healer would be angry about overgeared people in his group.)

[Tiggy]

How would it be a waste. Level sync preserves the relevance of the content.

I don't care about the relevance of the content. I don't care one bit. What I care about is all that gear I work my butt of for being relevant. I cap poe each week. I run coil for drops. I hunt for twines. I do my weekly quest for coats. This suggestion would make that all IRRELEVANT for most level 50 content. If you negate the purpose of the gear grind you effectively negate 90% of what I care about in this game.

Try to understand that your view point isn't the only one. Your reason to play isn't the same as everyone else. Some people don't play to feel like content is relevant. (even when it's over a year old and NOT RELEVANT AT ALL) Some people play to become more powerful. When you take that away from them in most level 50 content then you are literally destroying the reason some people play. I don't want to take 30+ minutes on a dungeon that came out a year and a half ago just so it feels like it did a year and a half ago. It's old content and it should feel like old content.

This isn't all about you. Notice how my suggestion gave people options. Play the dungeon in a harder mode for better rewards if you want. It doesn't force EVERY PLAYER to fit in the same box. That's what this thread would suggest and it would be incredibly boring. I would quit the game. You'd be fooling yourself if you think many people don't think this way. One of the primary grinds in an MMO is the gear grind and negating it will not serve the game in a good way. People don't want to constantly struggle on old content. They eventually want to feel like they are growing more powerful over time. That's 100% what progression in an mmo is about. This is a view point you've clearly not considered.

[Darsho]

I don't care about the relevance of the content. I don't care one bit.

lol

This isn't all about you.

lol

seeing the irony here?

[Kosmos992k]

I don't care about the relevance of the content. I don't care one bit.

Nice, thanks for stating that so clearly, and remind me to make sure I avoid you in regular gameplay.

What I care about is all that gear I work my butt of for being relevant.

How does overgearing the living crap out of content make you or youre gear relevant?

I cap poe each week. I run coil for drops. I hunt for twines. I do my weekly quest for coats.

Good for you, notice how nothing I posted alters that in any way.

This suggestion would make that all IRRELEVANT for most level 50 content. If you negate the purpose of the gear grind you effectively negate 90% of what I care about in this game.

How? Seriously, how? How does syncing your ilvl make your gear irrelevant? How can a suggestion of ilvl sync possibly make your gear more irrelevant than you overgearing content by 50+ ilvls already does?

Try to understand that your view point isn't the only one.

I very much understand that as it happens, I'm not sure that you do, since as you already stated, you don't care.

Your reason to play isn't the same as everyone else. Some people don't play to feel like content is relevant. (even when it's over a year old and NOT RELEVANT AT ALL) Some people play to become more powerful.

Great, be powerful, mock the less powerful by using your uber gear to clear difficult content with ease. Why is it necessary for you to clear relatively easy content with Godlike ease to make you feel better?

When you take that away from them in most level 50 content then you are literally destroying the reason some people play.

And that reason is what? To be as Gods among mere mortals? To lord it over others?

I don't want to take 30+ minutes on a dungeon that came out a year and a half ago just so it feels like it did a year and a half ago. It's old content and it should feel like old content.

Then don't do it, stick to your raids and never sully your hands with such old content again, it's obviously beneath your contempt.

Yes, I'm actually annoyed by your point of view.

This isn't all about you.

Clearly, since it's obviously all about you and your gear, and you care nothing about anything else.

Notice how my suggestion gave people options. Play the dungeon in a harder mode for better rewards if you want. It doesn't force EVERY PLAYER to fit in the same box.

Without level sync and ilvl sync, there is no box for anyone because you already outgeared and destroyed it.

That's what this thread would suggest and it would be incredibly boring. I would quit the game.

How is it more boring to run the content and have to actually think, instead of mindlessly grind through burning trash and Boss alike time after time?

You'd be fooling yourself if you think many people don't think this way. One of the primary grinds in an MMO is the gear grind and negating it will not serve the game in a good way. People don't want to constantly struggle on old content. They eventually want to feel like they are growing more powerful over time. That's 100% what progression in an mmo is about. This is a view point you've clearly not considered.

Hmmm... well, the game I played before this had no level sync, and players with the end-game gear ran out of things to do extremely quickly and bitched to the high heavens about having nothing to do because their gear made them pretty much immune to damage in all but the top tier difficulty and able to one shot almost every trash mob in the game. So, forgive me if I discount your opinion as selfish and self serving and coming from someone who apparently doesn't care about anything except the sense of validation they get from grinding out gear and lording it over others.

[Ashkendor]

lol

lol

Tiggy never said her point of view is the only one, and actually she suggested something that would accommodate people on both sides of the issue quite nicely. The person she replied to wants level syncs with no regard to whether or not other players want it that way. *shrugs*

Great, be powerful, mock the less powerful by using your uber gear to clear difficult content with ease. Why is it necessary for you to clear relatively easy content with Godlike ease to make you feel better?

And that reason is what? To be as Gods among mere mortals? To lord it over others?

Then don't do it, stick to your raids and never sully your hands with such old content again, it's obviously beneath your contempt.

Yes, I'm actually annoyed by your point of view.

Just... what? The fact that someone has good gear and can roll through a dungeon automatically means they are lording their gear over others and mocking them? I mean, did you stop to think that some of us enjoy helping lower geared players get through content more quickly? Did you stop to think that some new players may not take seeing someone that outgears the content as "omfg why do I play this game" but rather see it as "omfg I want to be like that person someday" and be inspired to work their little tails off to gear up? The great part about this game is there is no P2W aspect. Everyone can get the same level of gear. You may not be able to get your class' optimized gear without raiding, but you can still get some pretty damn good equipment just by capping tomes every week.

The problem with saying "never sully your hand with such old content again" is that SE keeps sending us back to that old content over and over in order to help newer players get through it. Low level roulette sends us back to anything under level 50. Animus sends us back to low level dungeons too. Zodiac primarily sends us to level 50+ dungeons (with two exceptions, Dzemael Darkhold and Aurum Vale, both of which are high level and have long waits in the queue because people dislike them). Without veterans being sent back through the content, newbies would have a terribly hard time getting through the dungeons they need to progress their story quest. They'd be stuck facing either long queues or looking desperately for a party. Many would probably lose interest and simply quit.

Long story short, if you level sync the 50+ dungeons too low, you make them take way longer than they have to which impacts the queue times for other players. You also make it less likely that people with higher-end gear will actually go run them unless they are absolutely forced to. Hell, if the dungeons were 40+ minutes apiece due to level sync, I probably wouldn't be working on my 3rd Zodiac weapon. That's one less tank or healer in the queue (god knows I don't queue as DPS unless I'm in a premade cause that queue time is murder, seriously), which means two more potential newbie DPS waiting that much longer to get into a dungeon that they need for progression.

Clearly, since it's obviously all about you and your gear, and you care nothing about anything else.

I guess you also missed the part where she suggested an optional level sync. *shrugs*

[Limecat]

Removed.10charlol