Alexander

[WellFooled]

actually I remember Fernwhales answering this question at fanfest. He was the one whom stated that the sylphs who summoned Ramuh then also asked him to be tempered.

Man, I totally missed that. Do you by chance have a link to a video or a transcript of this I could check out?

Even with this new info, I still hold Ramuh to be evil though. If someone walked up to you and asked you to take away their free will and replace it with a zealot's desire to worship you, would you say yes if you were a good person?

But...I'm also repeatedly dragging this thread off topic ._. The morality of Ramuh always hits a nerve with me. My apologies everyone.

[lololink]

Considering the tempered Sylph were kidnaping the untempered Sylph when Ramuh wasn't even summoned, it seems likely that there could be an alternative method of tempering that doesn't involve the primal's direct action.

Not really, they summoned him briefly once before 2.0 that's when he tempered the first time at that time Ramuh didn't try to harm anyone and vanished but the sylphs were concerned that if he is summoned again he might use his judgement bolt this time, and then the sylphs tempered each others.

[ruskie]

Well unless he is there to kill all cat people.

Nah gobos want more lala bbq and they'll share it with us cat folk

[Nialle]

Even with this new info, I still hold Ramuh to be evil though. If someone walked up to you and asked you to take away their free will and replace it with a zealot's desire to worship you, would you say yes if you were a good person?.

I've always gotten the impression that Primals are less than 100% autonomous beings, and are manifests of the desires of the people who summon them. So he doesn't have a problem tempering Sylphs because the ones to summoned him want him to do it and he's largely a manifestation their own wills, despite having his own personality to a degree.

[LineageRazor]

From that description, It could be that the summoning process itself caused the Tempering...but I don't think so, because Frixio also talks about the touched ones trying to get the other Slyphs tempered and since the Slpyhs of Little Solace wouldn't summon Ramuh then the method must not involve summoning. Instead I think it's the same method we've seen in action from other Primals, a deliberate tempering by the Primal itself.

From what I've seen in game, I've gathered that there are three ways an individual can become tempered:
- The Primal can do it to you personally. We witness Ifrit doing this to a crowd of people just before we fight him.
- You can take part in summoning a Primal. Frixio's dialogue indicates that is why the Touched Sylphs became Touched.
- Beast tribes can capture you and convert you even without the Primal being summoned. Numerous Beast Tribe daily quests deal with rescuing captured individuals before they can be Tempered - and one in particular involving the Sahagin, you are sent to rescue people knowing SOME but not ALL of them have been Drowned and will need to be put down. Since this quest can be performed BEFORE you fight Leviathan in the Main Scenario (canonically, it has been many years since the last summoning), it's clear that the actual presence of the Primal is not required. (Unless they use a handful of crystals to summon an Egi or something.)

I'd never heard of Fern mentioning that the Touched Sylphs asked Ramuh to Temper them. I can't imagine why they'd do so, but even if that is the case it does not necessarily change any of the above.

[WellFooled]

- You can take part in summoning a Primal. Frixio's dialogue indicates that is why the Touched Sylphs became Touched.

I can see where this might be true, but I don't think we have enough information yet to say. Frixio doesn't flat out tell us that it was the summoning process itself that tempered the Slpyhs, only that all those that took part in it were eventually tempered, which would make sense because those Slyphs that summoned Ramuh would be on hand when he first arrived and so he could easily temper them himself.

- Since this quest can be performed BEFORE you fight Leviathan in the Main Scenario (canonically, it has been many years since the last summoning), it's clear that the actual presence of the Primal is not required. (Unless they use a handful of crystals to summon an Egi or something.)

I'm leery of using gameplay to figure out a lore timeline. The Sahagin dailies and the leviathan fight were both added in patch 2.2, which I think suggests that they would be happening side by side to each other in time, despite what order you actually do them in as a player.

[Jinrya-Geki]

My question of now when we fight the primals now, after the Keeper of the Lake.

What keeps us from being Tempered? Cause "so and so" didn't mention anything about making sure we couldn't be after doing the deed.

[Nalien]

My question of now when we fight the primals now, after the Keeper of the Lake.

What keeps us from being Tempered? Cause "so and so" didn't mention anything about making sure we couldn't be after doing the deed.

The Echo is what keeps us from being tempered. We lost the Blessing of Light, not the Echo, hence why we can understand Ascians following the Keeper of the Lake dungeon. The Blessing of Light is what made Ultima Weapon and Lahabrea such pushovers in Praetorium.

[Sayora]

My question of now when we fight the primals now, after the Keeper of the Lake.

What keeps us from being Tempered? Cause "so and so" didn't mention anything about making sure we couldn't be after doing the deed.

I think it's Ifrit, but a Primal states that the PC has already been "claimed" by another. There's nothing confirming it, but I operate under the assumption that we were already tempered in a way and she's just a nice person to have our soul claimed by.

[Dualblade]

It should be noted that even if we now can be tempered by primals like everyone else, by the time we got to that point only Odin was around, and so far the only tempering he seems to do is via the sword.

On Ramuh, he seems more of a neutral force then anything else, only really concered with protecting the Slyphs...kinda like the Elements with the forest. He seems to lean towards good as well, but ultimately it was only be proving our strength that he decided not to try and attack the city-states. I would put Titan in this as well based on what we know of him, though with papa bear instincts keeping him from reason when we got there.

As for Alexander...well I read what someone said they did in XI, but by this point with what has happened, it could be anything. Hell, for all we know the summoning process the Ascians gave the tribes just corrupts the Primals, and in the Alexander raid he had enough sense to somehow get a message to us so we could try and destroy the corruption in him and return him to truly being holy.