Alexander

[WellFooled]

actually I remember Fernwhales answering this question at fanfest. He was the one whom stated that the sylphs who summoned Ramuh then also asked him to be tempered.

Man, I totally missed that. Do you by chance have a link to a video or a transcript of this I could check out?

Even with this new info, I still hold Ramuh to be evil though. If someone walked up to you and asked you to take away their free will and replace it with a zealot's desire to worship you, would you say yes if you were a good person?

But...I'm also repeatedly dragging this thread off topic ._. The morality of Ramuh always hits a nerve with me. My apologies everyone.

[Nialle]

Even with this new info, I still hold Ramuh to be evil though. If someone walked up to you and asked you to take away their free will and replace it with a zealot's desire to worship you, would you say yes if you were a good person?.

I've always gotten the impression that Primals are less than 100% autonomous beings, and are manifests of the desires of the people who summon them. So he doesn't have a problem tempering Sylphs because the ones to summoned him want him to do it and he's largely a manifestation their own wills, despite having his own personality to a degree.

[LineageRazor]

From that description, It could be that the summoning process itself caused the Tempering...but I don't think so, because Frixio also talks about the touched ones trying to get the other Slyphs tempered and since the Slpyhs of Little Solace wouldn't summon Ramuh then the method must not involve summoning. Instead I think it's the same method we've seen in action from other Primals, a deliberate tempering by the Primal itself.

From what I've seen in game, I've gathered that there are three ways an individual can become tempered:
- The Primal can do it to you personally. We witness Ifrit doing this to a crowd of people just before we fight him.
- You can take part in summoning a Primal. Frixio's dialogue indicates that is why the Touched Sylphs became Touched.
- Beast tribes can capture you and convert you even without the Primal being summoned. Numerous Beast Tribe daily quests deal with rescuing captured individuals before they can be Tempered - and one in particular involving the Sahagin, you are sent to rescue people knowing SOME but not ALL of them have been Drowned and will need to be put down. Since this quest can be performed BEFORE you fight Leviathan in the Main Scenario (canonically, it has been many years since the last summoning), it's clear that the actual presence of the Primal is not required. (Unless they use a handful of crystals to summon an Egi or something.)

I'd never heard of Fern mentioning that the Touched Sylphs asked Ramuh to Temper them. I can't imagine why they'd do so, but even if that is the case it does not necessarily change any of the above.

[WellFooled]

- You can take part in summoning a Primal. Frixio's dialogue indicates that is why the Touched Sylphs became Touched.

I can see where this might be true, but I don't think we have enough information yet to say. Frixio doesn't flat out tell us that it was the summoning process itself that tempered the Slpyhs, only that all those that took part in it were eventually tempered, which would make sense because those Slyphs that summoned Ramuh would be on hand when he first arrived and so he could easily temper them himself.

- Since this quest can be performed BEFORE you fight Leviathan in the Main Scenario (canonically, it has been many years since the last summoning), it's clear that the actual presence of the Primal is not required. (Unless they use a handful of crystals to summon an Egi or something.)

I'm leery of using gameplay to figure out a lore timeline. The Sahagin dailies and the leviathan fight were both added in patch 2.2, which I think suggests that they would be happening side by side to each other in time, despite what order you actually do them in as a player.

[Setesh]

I'm leery of using gameplay to figure out a lore timeline. The Sahagin dailies and the leviathan fight were both added in patch 2.2, which I think suggests that they would be happening side by side to each other in time, despite what order you actually do them in as a player.

In the main scenario quest "The Gift of Eternity," though, Y'shtola observes that the Sahagin "have made thralls of soldiers and civilians both," before Leviathan is summoned. Wouldn't that suggest the Sahagin have a way to "drown" people without Leviathan's direct intervention?

[Mholito]

I seem to recall Ramuh stating that the sylphs begged him to temper them, and he obliged.

[shawnaus1986]

what does tempering actually do?

[godwin]

Don't worry once we are done with it, it'll be even more holey.

[Ethys]

I did some digging and analysis RE Alexander a few weeks ago... I've had a little more time to think since then but I'm sure that some of you will find this pretty compelling:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCAlMyKYUI4

[Jinrya-Geki]

My question of now when we fight the primals now, after the Keeper of the Lake.

What keeps us from being Tempered? Cause "so and so" didn't mention anything about making sure we couldn't be after doing the deed.