A request for some tough content.

[Reaujien]

I said my % were arbitrary based on what I've seen in other MMOs and populations, not that SE would make any definitive plans or changes based on them.

Then what are you suggesting? Or simply, what was the point of you providing such arbitrary numbers if the purpose of doing so was not meant to support an argument for, or against, any changes or additions to current and/or future content?

Again, I've seen enough of these statistics to understand there's a very steep pyramid when it comes to player-base demographics.

Can you provide any links to any reference material that would verify these statistics? Or do you have any empyrical evidence that would support such? Perhaps I would then have an easier time understanding your premise(s).

Since it seems you want more specifics, we need only look as far back as the FF Player's Polls from Jan/Feb of this year. Certainly you're not suggesting SE ignore this information are you? Again, every company needs to identify their core demographic and SE certainly made an attempt to do so as well in their 1st Player Poll. The usual distinction between casual and hardcore is generally defined by playtime per week, and SE did similar in their 2nd players poll (Item 3): http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...16083b634f7678

Yes specifics are nice - without them how can anyone form any sort of valid argument for, or agaist, anything?

Of course I'm not suggesting that SE, or the dev team(s) should ignore this poll. While I appreciate your reference and mentioning, do not misinterpret the suggestion of a statistic that only identifies that there exist a certain percentage of players who want more content in any form to that of an arbitrary statistic that would suggest that new content should be catered towards some "majority" of players in an "other-than-and-not-tough" form. Also, this specific poll, and what it shows, is in no way related to my rebuttle of what you stated (below):

This game needs more content before worrying about tough content. Reality of it is, if you design content meant for the top 10% of the population to clear, that 10% grows closer to 100% of your total population. Not a good thing for a game that is already having serious population issues.

...and...

Its more of an arbitrary % based on the usual quoted ratio of "Hardcore" to "Casual" players for any particular MMO population. Some games release the % of total population that clear content, or hit certain milestones and it usually hovers in the 5-10% range until they nerf the content for the masses.

Of couse this game needs more content in general. What I'm rebuting is that because you assert that only 10% of the player population is "hardcore" that SE should design "other-than-and-not-tough" content to satisfy the other 90% "casual" players or this game will continue to lose active players.

No, it doesn't contradict anything.

But it does come off as contradicting - here's why:

First, you provide an unverified statement that,

Some games release the % of total population that clear content, or hit certain milestones and it usually hovers in the 5-10% range until they nerf the content for the masses

which suggests that MMO designers create content to be "tough" from the begining and then take some sort of poll - or other methodology of data collection - of the active player base to see how many have completed such content in order to guage how "tough" the content actually is.

Then, you state,

My viewpoint is that you might never see the kind of content aimed at that 10% if you don't make that other 90% happy first

which suggests, clearly, that MMO designers need to make content for the 90% "casual" before they can make content for the 10% "hardcore". However, if the majority of the content has been created to satisfy this 90%, why would any "nerfing" need to take place?

It should be obvious what I'm referring to, content that anyone from Rank 1-50 can experience, complete, and enjoy along the way.

"Anyone", really? My apologies but don't you think that's a mighty feat. That, and now you've gone from content to satisfy 90% (being the "casual" player base) to content that should now satisfy anyone.

That's in stark contrast to what Mog wants, content that only 5-10% of the endgame population might be able to clear.

In fact, that is not what Doctor Mog has stated nor has he eluded to as well. And I can only logically assume that you think this because you believe that there is this 10% "hardcore" player base as if its statistical fact even though you state it's simply arbitrary.

Because lets be honest, if 100% of the population could clear it, it just wouldn't be tough enough for Mog, amirite?

No, you're not right - or at least I would, again, disagree and rebute. In fact, you're being what's called ad hominem, which is simply providing "low blow" statements (often false) in an attempt to demonize a person's character in the hopes that it will somehow magically prove them wrong and you right. If a doctor who smokes tells you that smoking is bad, does the fact alone that the doctor smokes negate the validity of his statement? Of course not.

Not really, again, 37% of the population identified lack of content as the #1 problem with this game in January. Item #7: http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...98e4034b898102

My mistake - I should have elaborated more than just "Sorry, heh, that's 100% subjective...again". What I should have said was that it's 100% subjective that there is absolutely no player - "hardcore" or "casual" - who is currently happy with the level of content in FFXIV. Though I do believe there are some, if not many, players who are unhappy with this game atm, but to say there aren't any is subjective - or at least simply your opinion. How do you know with absolute certainty that there exists no player who is happy with the current content of FFXIV?

[Chiz]

Wall of text arguing semantics

Here you go: http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/gui.../09/index.html

First pie chart shows login time per character, 86% of players spent 1-3 hours, another 8% spent 4-6 hours. Only 6% spent more than 6 hours logged in per day. Pretty clearly demonstrates that 5-10% hardcore number I alluded to earlier doesn't it? You will find similar statistics for just about any other MMO that publishes them.

Now troll elsewhere please.

My mistake - I should have elaborated more

Its OK I won't spam you with a wall of text nitpicking every word over such a harmless mistake and I was more than happy to point you to some relevant source material. I'm sure there's a few idiots who are happy with the state of the game but I think its safe to say the overwhelming majority aren't happy with it. Otherwise we wouldn't have gone from the ~600K total sales # to the ~40K leftover running the graveyard shift. More sources!

http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales...sy-xiv-online/

[Reaujien]

@Chiz

Sounds good son.

[Jynx]

Here you go: http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/gui.../09/index.html

First pie chart shows login time per character, 86% of players spent 1-3 hours, another 8% spent 4-6 hours. Only 6% spent more than 6 hours logged in per day. Pretty clearly demonstrates that 5-10% hardcore number I alluded to earlier doesn't it? You will find similar statistics for just about any other MMO that publishes them.

Man I did plenty of "Hardcore" content in XI and most the time I bet I barely got 3+ hours in a day. Aside from camping the Kings most the content was actually fairly friendly if you had only a few hours to burn. It was just a long grind to get too that point I would say.

I wouldn't quantify the "Time logged in" as how "Hardcore" someone is...but maybe thats just me.

[weeble]

Man I did plenty of "Hardcore" content in XI and most the time I bet I barely got 3+ hours in a day. Aside from camping the Kings most the content was actually fairly friendly if you had only a few hours to burn. It was just a long grind to get too that point I would say.

I wouldn't quantify the "Time logged in" as how "Hardcore" someone is...but maybe thats just me.

i'd agree, i think the bigger part of time in mmo is being broke and trying to make gils, not getting endgame gear. plus the time it takes for the first batch of players to get there gear it usually gets way easier to the point new people are getting those same pieces in a month. either way neither time is bad for the best gear, u supposed to put in time for the best. mmo's are meant to be played for years, not months. and most endgame have speedbumps, aka can only do them twice a week, that means any all people hardcore, casual, players who play all day or only few hours a week can participate in them. play the game, play life, don't play both mediocre. do u guys just play offline games on the easiest mode then toss it? wtf games are supposed to give a challenge.

if u don't have time to play u'r still moving at same pace progress wise as everyone else, it take u longer in years but that is a mmo. can't do the content cause to hard? keep trying or maybe u need a new way to spend your time, rather then flash your money and screw the mmo world, hey rl go screw your man or gf instead, lifes good. lol.

but any who, i still have my hopes set on this game being great and endgames still being pushed out that are as good as ffxi had. anything less is fail, even people who are asking for the opposite will leave this game in a year with what they asked for like eh, need new game cause i'm done with everything.

[Xianghua]

I agree with this. Simply because these little 1hrs raids or short and easy events won't cut it. Many people are Already done with Darkhold and hasn't even been out for a month yet. SE is either gonna need to release difficult content, time consuming content. or Content with time restrictions. other wise people will get done with them too fast and will be nothing left for us to do. once this game goes P2P. the reason why XIs content lasted so long was it had a bunch of time restrictions when you could do it. so people were not able to get everything the 1st couple of weeks

[Roaran]

I agree with this. Simply because these little 1hrs raids or short and easy events won't cut it. Many people are Already done with Darkhold and hasn't even been out for a month yet. SE is either gonna need to release difficult content, time consuming content. or Content with time restrictions. other wise people will get done with them too fast and will be nothing left for us to do. once this game goes P2P. the reason why XIs content lasted so long was it had a bunch of time restrictions when you could do it. so people were not able to get everything the 1st couple of weeks

I think this an important point. Developers can only create and release certain quantities of content. Deciding just how long the content, once released, will last, is a careful balancing act. If you release content that is designed to last for years, either by imposing time sinks or increasing difficulty, only the players with the most time or skill will benefit. On the other hand, releasing content that is readily accessible and only moderately difficult, all players benefit. (Players with more time/skill benefit by clearing first and having even more time).

The single greatest problem with designing soley moderately difficult/little-time-invested content or incredibly difficult/time consuming content, is the alienation of the other group of players.

You then must make a decision on the proportion of content.

___________________________________________________

That said, the proportion of content should be based on the proportion of those groups of players. My experience has shown that the players best suited for moderately difficult/little-time-invested content outnumber the players who want harder/more-time-consuming content. By how much? -- I can't really say.

However, based on this experience, that I'm sure others share, I would outline content something like this:

• 15%

  Ranking up, levequests, SP Grind

• 5%

  Non-Story Quests

• 20%

  Story Related Quests (Cutscenes and Character development)

So far we have 40% of the content. Most of it is learning your your character, your class, the world, and the characters in the world. From this point foward, after having become familiar with the basics of the game, the bulk of the content should be focussed on making a difference in the world or completing specific challenges.

With 60% left, we have to break it down into both a casual/hardcore mix, with the casual content being easily accessible, and the hardcore content being long-lasting. ('m not saying that just because people who log in for long periods of time are automatically hardcore players, but recognizing serious gamers who breeze through content designed for the masses require not necessarily more content but content that lasts longer or takes much longer to complete.)

• 40%

  Casual Content

• 20%

  Hardcore Content

Both of these last two categories fall into the 'end game'. So, many of their parts will compose of several similar concepts that vary in scale and difficulty. A single faction leve at a lower difficulty, for example, might be enough for the casual players. But the hardcore players might need to complete a few quests before unlocking their more difficult faction leve.

_____________________________________

[Synthesis]

I hope you will get your content, yet another thing out of my reach. I usually solo leves since nothing is happening. My ls has got two people and in other ls that is just social, no one does things together as ls.

So I dont have Dazamel quest yet as well, hm. But anyway, it doesnt matter.
I thinke full parties of skilled people should have some content beside your "speed runs" as well. Why not, anyway I would still reconsider this should be kept for light parties as well. 4/4

[Zalasta]

I just want to achieve something... I mean, I can get the gear from Batraal... and then what?

/cry