Slaughter... What do you think?

[Hyrist]

True. But the first version tanked for a reason. I have no problem with a PvE centric game. If this game had no PvP I would still play but if Square is going to implement PvP they should at least show some level of interest in making it as fluid as possible, or else why even have it? To appease us? Putting in a half-hearted PvP system wont make anyone happy, it'll just make the few of us who do enjoy it frustrated.

I'm not entirely sure I understand the details of your criticisms at this point, however.

Slaughter holds depth to it. It needs refinement, yes. However that Refinement is reliant just as much on the aspect on how players are playing the mode as it is on balance adjustments to the content. In my experience thus far PvP's lack of depth has more to do with players herding into crowd mentalities rather than work on the strategies that are in place. Cometeor spam is useful because players all hurtle together - when the mechanics of Frontline benefit most when the players spread to other objectives and function as three separate units.

Can we blame SE for the poor utility use of its players and those who capitalize on it? Malestrom in the morning is so dynamically different than Malestrom in the evening because of how much easier it is to focus objectives and get the appropriate roles. I think both need to be addressed.

You're right. It's just the "objectives" themselves aren't valuable enough to put value on them, if that makes sense. Yes you can win matches with them, yes they can help, but so does dominion of the top and waiting for the other teams to come back up their pads and crushing them. Death = you lose the buffs they give you anyway. I've seen plenty of matches we won where we didn't get a single one of those alpha nodes. Should the alpha nodes be worth more? Maybe. Should those alpha nodes be up from the beginning of the match to get teams splitting initially? Absolutely.

30 points is nothing to snuff at. You'd have to suffer an entire wipe of the alliance and more to lose that amount in kills. But as far as camping someone else's incoming pads. That's just a matter of having your tanks lead up the jump and baiting out cometeors and sleeps. Also, having one party defending that section and engaging the enemy directly when it comes time for your team to return also prevents the camping. Target attack the Magic DPS with your tank and other DPS and have your healers spread apart from one another while the front group engages. To better facilitate this you can have your tank-heavy party stay on the center or swap a tank for more DPS on the exterior objections as it should take only one tank each to secure the objective.

What I see happening most is that only one party is running off to the objective and gaining 15 points, instead of contesting two.

There are other things I see that are poorly thought out on return. Remaining on mounts when you're using the jump pad. There are a lot of things that are preventable with just a little bit of forethought. But the combat is new and it's very loose. However, teamwork will win out if you're playing intelligently - which is my main point.

On the feedback: I can see this working, as well as simply having more alpha nodes spawn or perhaps the Beta ones spawn outside. Obviously the system can be improved upon. I just feel it may be prudent to wait a bit for the players to improve first so we can narrow out more concise adjustments. New mode-new meta. Let the meta sort out a bit.

[Atreus]

snip

You're pointing out tactics that help prevent this and that, and yeah in a perfect world everyone is on the perfect job for the task.

What I see happening most is that only one party is running off to the objective and gaining 15 points, instead of contesting two.

And on our end, our other two teams are just cleaning up the top and preparing to wipe the returning teams.

You can argue that multiple ways to win is a good thing, but there's still far too much emphasis on the middle, even with those side alpha nodes.

[AntiSocialPanda]

Slaughter holds depth to it. It needs refinement, yes. However that Refinement is reliant just as much on the aspect on how players are playing the mode as it is on balance adjustments to the content. In my experience thus far PvP's lack of depth has more to do with players herding into crowd mentalities rather than work on the strategies that are in place. Cometeor spam is useful because players all hurtle together - when the mechanics of Frontline benefit most when the players spread to other objectives and function as three separate units.

Can we blame SE for the poor utility use of its players and those who capitalize on it? Malestrom in the morning is so dynamically different than Malestrom in the evening because of how much easier it is to focus objectives and get the appropriate roles. I think both need to be addressed.

Right again. I'm not faulting SE for Slaughter though. It's like you said, it has a deeper level to it but most people are incapable of seeing it. My general problems with PvP is outside of Slaughter, the typical: casters being interrupted all the time, blah blah blah, etc. It's been said a dozen times. But I will say those LBs need a nerf lol.

[Hyrist]

<snip>

If we're going to make cast interruption more difficult, then we're going to have to make casting weaker across the board. Range is the safety measure of all mages and one you remove the immediate threat of being interrupted once that distance is closed, you're going to invalidate a lot of Melee further than they already feel. In circumstances in which melee feel a if they can't over-extend, mages already stand to have a most significant advantage. The only times in which cast interruption becomes a major issue is when a Mage is caught alone with their cooldowns down - which shouldn't ever happen in a team-based game and, in my humble opinion, that's the fault of the players, not the system.

[Red_Wolf]

The only times in which cast interruption becomes a major issue is when a Mage is caught alone with their cooldowns down - which shouldn't ever happen in a team-based game and, in my humble opinion, that's the fault of the players, not the system.

So anytime a caster is caught alone against a melee it should be a free kill? No bias there.

BTW, in order for cast interruptions to become "more" difficult they have to be difficult to begin with. You auto-attacking does not qualify.

[Hyrist]

So anytime a caster is caught alone against a melee it should be a free kill? No bias there.

If it's a free kill the caster is doing something wrong. Every one has a bind and/or a sleep available to them, most of them instant or have a cooldown to become instant, some of them are on insane duration. An isolated melee vs an Isolated caster should mean either a free kill for the Caster's team due to chain CC or a free escape on behalf of the caster.

[Red_Wolf]

If it's a free kill the caster is doing something wrong. Every one has a bind and a sleep available to them, most of them instant or have a cooldown to become instant, some of them are on insane duration.

Or... not. Are you not going to use Purify? If so thanks I guess. I get to run away instead of trying to kill you. Wow, I showed you!

Why do I have to run away as a caster? That is your bias. Melee already have enough advantages. You can attack on the move. You can interrupt while simply using your best burst DPS rotation. A skilled caster should be able to kite and kill you.

[Hyrist]

Or... not. Are you not going to use Purify? If so thanks I guess. I get to run away instead of trying to kill you. Wow, I showed you!

Why do I have to run away as a caster? That is your bias. Melee already have enough advantages. You can attack on the move. You can interrupt while simply using your best burst DPS rotation. A skilled caster should be able to kite and kill you.

I'm not going to get into a one on one skill opinion debate on you on a team game.

It is a team game, not much difference than a Moba, and you're arguing that a support should be able to kill the AD carry flat out. No, just no. Play to the game's mechanics or don't play.

And skilled Caster class (read Summoner or Black Mage), in fact, can kill a Melee one on one. It depends who gets the drop on who first. (obviously it's a lot more complicated than that but you do Catster DPS a discredit to think it's an automatic free kill melee.)

Intentional or not, you confuse rage with disappointment, which only makes me even more disappointed.

All caps does not infer disappointment, but rage. The disappointment, sir, is mine.