Slaughter... What do you think?

[Synnovus]

- Snip -

Queue times are very volatile and seem to be a feature of a poorly optimized queuing algorithm. We've run multiple groups of the same size (from 4-8 people per group) and always have mixed success. Sometimes the groups alternate queues (as expected) and sometimes they end up in different games simultaneously (good queues). Other times one group will sit AFK for 45 minutes while the other group inexplicably hits back-to-back queues. The only thing I can tell you in confidence is that the Aether data center has an over saturation of Flames and they see extremely long queue times when compared to the other Grand Companies.

As far as Adrenaline goes, it's a bit difficult to gauge as there are a number of factors that influence it. We estimate the values at 6-8 kills unbuffed, 3-5 kills with Battle High, and 2-3 kills with Battle Fever to go from empty to full. You hit the lower end of the estimation if you land the killing blow and the high end if the kill was picked up by another party member. You seem to generate less Adrenaline if the kill is picked up by someone in an allied Alliance versus your own party but it could also be a damage contribution thing. It's hard to say.

Strangely enough, some of our hardest fought games are where the opposing Alliances (and perhaps our own) are completely objective focused. The initial Alpha Node (+Haste) is quickly killed and both the opposing teams scatter to the outskirts before we have a chance to get things going. This puts us in a situation where we don't have many, if any, kill streaks going and all the potential Limit Break targets (if we have it) are gone. We then have the choice of camping the center to secure the Beta Node and hope we are able to get things rolling once everyone returns or attempting to pursue an outer node ourselves. This also keeps the scores within competitive distance (30-60 points per team) as there are not usually many 'kill' points on the board. I'm not sure whether it's the unique dynamic of the game progression or simply stronger players in these scenarios but most games that follow this progression end in a closer score (20-60 point differential).

After giving it some thought I'd like to see the Beta Node's (+HP) spawn time pushed back by 45 to 75 seconds. I feel that this would promote the value of the outer nodes as there is less objective worth in the middle. This also give the opportunity for players who pursue the outer nodes to make it back to the middle to contest the Beta Node. A decisive victory over an outer node, either through excellent teamwork or another Grand Company's choice to ignore the objective, should allow a team enough time to take the objective and make it back as (or slightly before) the Beta Node is spawning. This also gives a team the option to stay in the middle in order to get a head start on the Beta Node but with less free time before the other teams return to contest the node. While there is less objective worth, there is still some strategic worth as you can get the initiative on teams who are coming up the jump pads and/or ramps.

Personally, I like the Interceptor Node as it is. The pulse AoE brings a new dynamic to the fray as it messes with crowd control and puts a bit more (though not much) strain on healing. It really brings out the feeling of a Team Deathmatch as you have a bloody battle over the final objective with every team using their full force. I also find the Object 130 enrage (if you ever see it) to be hilarious.. but maybe that's just me.

[AntiSocialPanda]

snip

Yes ... this is a common solution I\\'m hearing (nerfing caster dmg to fix interrupts). But honestly, as things are now, nothing can be "fixed" without breaking something else. No, what we need is a complete restructuring of classes in PvP, but I seriously doubt thats gonna happen.

Also, even if a mage or any other caster is caught alone they should be able to defend themselves regardless of this being a team based game or not. Melees getting free kills isnt biased at all ...

Yes, but you see, the way the game is now it\\'s like, "Uhp, a melee is on top of my face, might as well throw in the towel without trying because I\\'m dead." Even with cds up you\\'re only delaying the inevitable.

There are very few ways for casters to peel, excluding BLMs with their op sleep, to create distance again.

Basically, a lot is broken. And fixing it is no small task.

[Potatoes]

So what does everyone think?

[Sanghelios]

...

As much as i can agree on your opinion, i can say as whm that healing in Slaughter is a lot more enjoyable as it was in secure. Healer LB is also fine when well used. But besides that, i totally agree that that game mode is just shit. It did kill Secure and now we dont have any strategic pvp mode anymore. Slaughter gets boring after some games and i already thinking of stopping pvp for a while until they did add new ranks or major changes to slaughter. Not really enjoyable anymore.

[AntiSocialPanda]

Maybe everyone that's having a bad time in Slaughter should que with me so we can have a good time

[Red_Wolf]

I'm not going to get into a one on one skill opinion debate on you on a team game.

It is a team game, not much difference than a Moba, and you're arguing that a support should be able to kill the AD carry flat out. No, just no. Play to the game's mechanics or don't play.

And skilled Caster class (read Summoner or Black Mage), in fact, can kill a Melee one on one. It depends who gets the drop on who first. (obviously it's a lot more complicated than that but you do Catster DPS a discredit to think it's an automatic free kill melee.)

I believe I am playing. Every night as a matter of fact.

If you die to caster one on one as a melee then you are awful. Plain and simple. You've already admitted how OP they are in this situation. You can't just backtrack now and talk about this optimal situation. It's a free kill. And that bias and ego on how game mechanics "should be" is what is causing a lot of melee trouble in Slaughter. They just aren't used to having to play defensively at all.

I think all melee players want to be able kill casters 1v1 and have their LB AoE's nerfed to the ground so they can kill them in Slaughter just as easy. I've seen so many melee players cry over this. You can't have it all!

[Hyrist]

I believe I am playing. Every night as a matter of fact.

If you die to caster one on one as a melee then you are awful. Plain and simple. You've already admitted how OP they are in this situation. You can't just backtrack now and talk about this optimal situation. It's a free kill. And that bias and ego on how game mechanics "should be" is what is causing a lot of melee trouble in Slaughter. They just aren't used to having to play defensively at all.

I think all melee players want to be able kill casters 1v1 and have their LB AoE's nerfed to the ground so they can kill them in Slaughter just as easy. I've seen so many melee players cry over this. You can't have it all!

You're putting words in my mouth if you think I said casters and/or Melee are OP. I've said multiple times already that I feel the Adrenaline system could uses balancing. I honestly thing people mistakenly undervalue Melee in Slaughter as they're quite effective if you take advantage of their strengths and use them to apply pressure to opposing teams. Every single one of them has a gap closer that can be used to snipe down a squishy with the appropriate co-ordination. Players just don't coordinate as easily when they're not premade groups.

Also, this sounds a lot like personal bias on your end - meaning you, personally, are having troubles against melee. Your profile says you only have White Mage leveled. Are you PvPing on an alternate character as a DPS Mage, if so... step down from the horse a second and do some research. Lots of guidelines, especially for BLM, on how to take down a Melee one on one. Talk to your peers on how they handle the situation.

And again, this is all standing on an invalid straw-man argument that each class should be equivalent to each other in a team game. That's just not a reality of team based PvP. I don't know how this escapes you. A lone healer gets dropped on by a melee and ganked, that lone mage was out of position to begin with. To be truthful, no class should really be alone in these modes.

I'm seriously tempted to get on my Arcanist character and push to address your concerns from direct and recent experience. However I've more pressing reasons why I need to focus my PvP efforts on Hyrist right now.

After giving it some thought I'd like to see the Beta Node's (+HP) spawn time pushed back by 45 to 75 seconds. I feel that this would promote the value of the outer nodes as there is less objective worth in the middle. This also give the opportunity for players who pursue the outer nodes to make it back to the middle to contest the Beta Node. A decisive victory over an outer node, either through excellent teamwork or another Grand Company's choice to ignore the objective, should allow a team enough time to take the objective and make it back as (or slightly before) the Beta Node is spawning. This also gives a team the option to stay in the middle in order to get a head start on the Beta Node but with less free time before the other teams return to contest the node. While there is less objective worth, there is still some strategic worth as you can get the initiative on teams who are coming up the jump pads and/or ramps.

Personally, I like the Interceptor Node as it is. The pulse AoE brings a new dynamic to the fray as it messes with crowd control and puts a bit more (though not much) strain on healing. It really brings out the feeling of a Team Deathmatch as you have a bloody battle over the final objective with every team using their full force. I also find the Object 130 enrage (if you ever see it) to be hilarious.. but maybe that's just me.

I can see some of the logic on the Beta Drone, but I can’t entirely agree, I’ll explain some of my logic here.

The reason why Beta Drone dies before groups return is usually an error on behalf of the ‘Center’ team for the objective focused team. If they are DPSing the node, they’re giving their team less time to come up.

What they should be doing at that time is playing interference for the other teams - making it as painful to focus the Beta Drone as possible. I’ve recently had a team successfully pull of this tactic and enable their teams return to secure both an Alpha and a Beta Drone. (Sadly, we lost the Node after and that kinda negated our lead, but it secured us second.)

I could see perhaps a 15-30 second delay, but having multiple valuable objectives on the field does ask for a split focus, which I feel is good for gameplay overall.

Still, the Meta is new. I’m wondering how long the BLM trend will continue once melee’s realize that it’s easy to rush + Fetter Ward Raw Destruction most mages dead straight out. Nowadays I mostly see Melee trying to use it to capture objectives, which, honestly, I think Cometetor does a better job at it clears enemies away from the target as well.

[Red_Wolf]

Also, this sounds a lot like personal bias on your end - meaning you, personally, are having troubles against melee. Your profile says you only have White Mage leveled. Are you PvPing on an alternate character as a DPS Mage, if so... step down from the horse a second and do some research. Lots of guidelines, especially for BLM, on how to take down a Melee one on one. Talk to your peers on how they handle the situation.

And again, this is all standing on an invalid straw-man argument that each class should be equivalent to each other in a team game. That's just not a reality of team based PvP. I don't know how this escapes you. A lone healer gets dropped on by a melee and ganked, that lone mage was out of position to begin with. To be truthful, no class should really be alone in these modes.

I'm seriously tempted to get on my Arcanist character and push to address your concerns from direct and recent experience. However I've more pressing reasons why I need to focus my PvP efforts on Hyrist right now.

Ok, well you haven't PvP'd much and you've only PvP'd as a melee lately. This is probably going nowhere...

I play WHM so I get hit by everyone and have a good perspective on what is OP in PvP right now. Casters are fairly easy to heal through. Just get out of range or interrupt them. Right now they have a decent AoE LB but it's appears on the ground and takes a maximum of 3 steps to move out of. It's really not that difficult. They also don't have the burst to kill me even through a Regen. Melee players can completely shut down any caster (including healers) they choose by taking away 70-80% of their abilities just by auto-attacking them. That doesn't include their insane burst or mobility.

I defy you to give me one BLM who can consistently kill melee players 1v1. It is next to impossible. The poorly designed interrupt mechanic makes melee OP. I'm not sure how you can possibly defend this or imply it's a skill issue that I have yet to learn. You also just implied that melees can kill healer's 1v1. If you are this dead-set on calling this "team-based" PvP then you should realize this should be impossible. Yet it happens fairly often if the melee has their LB up and time their stuns properly.

I'm not sure what your point is, but you are way off basis if you are changing your argument to say BLM/SMN's are on-par with melee 1v1. That is simply untrue and shows a complete lack of understanding of your class.

[DividedSky]

Guys, here are my thoughts about your argument. Yes, melee OWN mages 1v1. However, melee suffer in zerg type situations in ALL games. Particularly in this game because of the way the game is designed. The game is designed so that mages do 10% more damage to melee than they do to other mages. Similarly melee do 10% more damage to mages. Melee typically do more single target damage to begin with making them better against a single target. Similar mages do better AoE damage and do much better against larger groups. Therefore in a 1v1 situation the melee will dominate due to the interrupt mechanic and mages are going to dominate large mass scale zerg content. The only way to counter that is to have an entire alliance of melee charging in and killing mages. Which would actually work but people don't like taking risks to find out... plus its hard to coordinate. You are both right. The imbalance is not in the classes its in the play style and player behavior. The classes themselves don't really need to be changed. People just need to try something different

[TheWaywardWind]

All caps does not infer disappointment, but rage. The disappointment, sir, is mine.

This is an overarching generalization only true to you. Again, son. I am dissapoint.