Bard : Are there Diminishing Returns on the Crit Stat?

[RiceisNice]

Topic title. Can't really get a feel for the actual values of increments. Would the crit stat become less efficient than det by-the-point after reaching a certain threshold?

[The_Last_Dragoon]

It's probably best not to invest too heavily into it since at a certain point, having more crit rating only means you have less determination or skill speed. Not to mention that over investing will cause your dps to shift wildly depending on your luck.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Directly, no. 13-14 crit from gear or food equals +1% crit chance.

Indirectly, yes, there is a diminishing value on crit. Simply because +1% crit isn't very valuable if you have a high crit rate already. In terms of numbers:
+1% added while you have 10% crit rate means you get 10% more crits on average (from 10% to 11%)
+1% added while you have a 20% crit rate means you get 5% more crits on average (from 20% to 21%)

For more extreme measures: Let's say you have 50% crit rate. 1% isn't really going to matter here. Or the most extreme one: +1% while you have a 98% chance to crit is nearly pointless.

[Viridiana]

Indirectly, yes, there is a diminishing value on crit. Simply because +1% crit isn't very valuable if you have a high crit rate already. In terms of numbers:
+1% added while you have 10% crit rate means you get 10% more crits on average (from 10% to 11%)
+1% added while you have a 20% crit rate means you get 5% more crits on average (from 20% to 21%)

Of course, the opposite side of that math is that +1% crit is the same amount of DPS (all else being equal, of course) no matter if it's your 11th percent or your 100th.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Of course, the opposite side of that math is that +1% crit is the same amount of DPS (all else being equal, of course) no matter if it's your 11th percent or your 100th.

Both true as well as false, as strange as it sounds. While every single percent crit has a steady DPS increase, which theoretically +0,5% for every 1%, it does not come at a cost. Considering how gear works right now you're sacrificing stats from another category to increase one. So it's actually less than +0,5% dps increase for every 1% crit chance increase. While at start it's only marginal, at one point Determination would outweight Critical hit rate. Although, with current gear I don't think we can reach a point where crit would weigh less than det right now - For a bard anyway. In the future, perhaps.

[Viridiana]

While every single percent crit has a steady DPS increase, which theoretically +0,5% for every 1%, it does not come at a cost. Considering how gear works right now you're sacrificing stats from another category to increase one. So it's actually less than +0,5% dps increase for every 1% crit chance increase.

Right, I grant that the tradeoff may stop being worth it, but if you could maintain all other stats equal, a 14 point change in crit will always be the same (with those other stats constant). I just don't like calling what crit does "diminishing returns."

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Right, I grant that the tradeoff may stop being worth it, but if you could maintain all other stats equal, a 14 point change in crit will always be the same (with those other stats constant). I just don't like calling what crit does "diminishing returns."

I didn't refer it as diminishing return, I mentioned it has diminishing value

[Dervy]

You're both right.

Crit has Marginal Diminishing Returns. Every point of Crit you stack will give you the same linear returns in damage, no matter if you have 400 Crit Rate, or 700 Crit Rate. But, the overall percentage of this damage value decreases each time your Critical Hit Rating increases.

[PROBOUND]

This link has all of the Crit rate testing/theorycrafting.

585 Crit is aproximately 22-23% Crit rate from the looks of it. Unless im reading that wrong. Someone else in the comments mentioned that those numbers actually translate to a 40% Crit rate but i'm not sure.

[MrYaah]

I feel like this thread got distracted by the whole how much crit does straightshot and internal release add question, which is rather off topic. For bards does is there a diminishing value for higher crit chance? Yes, but its marginal and so far it doesnt look like det will outweigh crit any time soon.

Diminishing returns of crit come from the increased chance of procing bloodletters twice (or more if you're multidoting) on the same dot tick. worst case scenario is that you're at 100% crit rate and critting every dot tick on every dot, which gives you a 50% chance of procing for each dot you have out, for single target dps theres a 25% chance you will proc 2 bloodletters, multidotting makes the math more complicated than i want to deal with.

stupid 1000 character limit