Contagion is way too overrated!

[Sanguisio]

I've done the numbers etc, Ifrit does more raw damage, but every 5minsroughly (assuming you perfectly clip dots) garuda allows a little more DPS. But this is ignoring outside buffs, crit rates etc.

At the end of the day garuda is best seen as the mp saving egi, and considering the current state SMN is in for FCOB that is what is needed. Unless the healers need MB, it will very rarely go up. Thankfully in t13 they need it otherwise I would run dry.

[ShinryuReishiki]

I've done the numbers etc, Ifrit does more raw damage, but every 5minsroughly (assuming you perfectly clip dots) garuda allows a little more DPS. But this is ignoring outside buffs, crit rates etc.

At the end of the day garuda is best seen as the mp saving egi, and considering the current state SMN is in for FCOB that is what is needed. Unless the healers need MB, it will very rarely go up. Thankfully in t13 they need it otherwise I would run dry.

Your personal DPS will be higher with Garuda, but over an extended fight, that amounts to less than what Ifrit brings, even without any slashing/blunt debuffs. I compared the two a few weeks ago over 5 minutes, doing everything I could to give an edge to Contagion such as Miasma II and Potent Poisoning Potions.

SMN: 358
Garuda: 135
Total: 493

SMN: 344
Ifrit: 171
Total: 515

I've ended up with a similar gap in actual encounters as well, and my group doesn't even have a MNK. Been using Ifrit on every fight since December without issue, only getting Ballad in T13. I only use two Energy Drains in each turn, and one of them is generally a "The boss is almost dead but I can't Fester" situation.

Both pets AOE, aerial slash has slightly more range but that is negligible in the grand scheme of things.

Usability aside, Aerial Slash has a small edge over Flaming Crush because of damage types as well; Ifrit's physical attacks do something like 70% the damage per potency that Garuda's magical attacks deal. Garuda's Aerial Blast is also quite a bit easier to aim than Ifrit's Inferno, although the latter is the stronger attack in this case.

[Sanguisio]

Hey
Can I ask how long the fight was, the issue with the DPS with garuda is that its ranking fluctuates depending on the length of the fight.

Like I said around the 5minish intervals garuda does best, but the more you move away from that ifrit is best off.

Its annoying because I've done some parsing on dummys (I know not ideal) and when I parsed 4 mins ifrit and I did more, but 5 mins garuda did more.

Then I tried again at 8min ifrit + I did more, then again at 10mins garuda + did slightly more by that point.

If they took contagion off garuda and gave it to SMN garuda would be a lot less viable. I know ease of use is a factor when comparing utility etc I choose to ignore things which can be overcome by practice. I have no issue using all of the pets actions and making sure they hit.

[Jeckyl_Tesla]

The reason you use Garuda mainly, is because Ifrit spends time travelling to the target. Garuda has no problem just attacking.

As for Contagion, people really don't seem to think about how strong it is with buffs.

Example.

You've just put your DoTs on the target. A few seconds later, Raging Strikes come off CD and Contagion comes off CD. Now, you have two scenarios here depending on your Egi.

Ifrit: Wait until your DoTs are just about to fall off to before popping Raging Strikes to re-DoT, which is a net loss since you've held a CD you should have used instantly as it came off CD.

Garuda: Pop Raging Strikes and at the end of the buff timer when your DoTs are just about to drop, reDoT and use Contagion to get a huge DPS boost.

The second scenario would yield a much higher DPS gain than you would with Ifrit.

[mvenom]

Its not even that contagion would add up DPS, it just saves MP. T13 I'm ok on MP up to first Dive phase with garuda, usually there bard plays Ballad because nothing to attack anyway and then plays at the start of last phase so I just switch out ifrit while sitting on Neurolink because Mp wont be issue for the rest of the fight. First phases it will be issue, just because of multidotting. You can barely dps dummy for 3-4min, and p1+2 usually tends to take 5min ish so cutting out miasma2, even w contagion, and few ruin2's to save MP.

I'd use ifrit on every fight but so far its just UGH. T11 kinda need garuda on add phase, usually swiftcasting ifrit for the last add and last phase. T12 I'm dpsing bennus so the amount of running around with ifrit is just silly so I prefer garuda, who can start dps asap.

[Jeckyl_Tesla]

I mean, by all means, test it. Parse it over the next few nights on multiple different bosses and let people know. Though I still think Garuda is still the stronger pet, unless it's for some tank and spank fights (T8 style)

[Sanguisio]

Ifrit with 100% uptime on boss with melee debuffs with good crit stat will outdps garuda and anything she brings it seems.

But if a fight with 100% you MP is going to be hit hard.

[Judge_Xero]

Ifrit with 100% uptime on boss with melee debuffs with good crit stat will outdps garuda and anything she brings it seems.

But if a fight with 100% you MP is going to be hit hard.

Even in MP intense fights, it's far better to use Ifrit with the occasional Energy Drain, than Garuda without.

i.e.
Garuda 130 DPS
Ifrit 156 DPS

1/3 Energy Drain - ~10 DPS loss from 150 Potency over 60 seconds.

+16 DPS

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Ifrit's movement over Garuda does not have a major effect on his DPS due to both AA and BS having a 3 second CD. Due to his fast movement speed he can pretty well be anywhere between that CD. But you should keep him on the major boss for 0 downtime.

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Garuda is not the MP Conservation Pet - she is the AOE pet. Nothing Ifrit has to offer compares to Contagioned/Baned Dots 3+ Targets.

Suppose I could try it next time, we got plenty more gear since I last tried, but without pet bennus stayed alive too long. Good thing our brd just got bow so should be np

Yeah, it definitely depends on your party comp how you deal with the Bennus. My group has a BLM and Bard, so aside from a Bio and Miasma II (hits Phoenix as well) and two Ruins on the Bennu, Ifrit and I stay on Phoenix the whole time. Our bard sings Ballad during the Bennu phase so that lets me stand in melee range and burn a lot of Ruin II's to get in lots of AA damage on Phoenix as well. (I usually end the 2nd phase with 200 MP and 1 Aether stack to Bane the first group of bennus in phase 3)

If you don't have anyone else to help with the Bennu's besides the Bard in phase 1/2 then timing your dots to have >9s before the Bennu spawn to Bane, Energy Drain, Fester on the Bennu then Ruin to finish it off. That way you can keep Ifrit on Phoenix the whole time. Just watch using EG/Fester right away for pulling hate. (this is assuming you tank Phoenix in the center, which you should to accommodate SMN)
This means you'll have to save all your Aetherflow just for the Bennu, and keep all your Dots on Phoenix while killing the bennu as well.
Keep dem dots roll'n

[Sanguisio]

It's not the direct DPS garuda does, its the DPS she allows the SMN to do.

Extends buffed DOTS +Poisons and frees you up to cast more ruins.

Garuda is egi that conserves the most MP for the SMN as it will decrease the amount of DOT casts.

Both pets AOE, aerial slash has slightly more range but that is negligible in the grand scheme of things.

[Judge_Xero]

It's not the direct DPS garuda does, its the DPS she allows the SMN to do.

Extends buffed DOTS +Poisons and frees you up to cast more ruins.

Garuda is egi that conserves the most MP for the SMN as it will decrease the amount of DOT casts.

Both pets AOE, aerial slash has slightly more range but that is negligible in the grand scheme of things.

Yeah, but the DPS gain for SMN over a long fight ends up pretty minimal.

In my example I was showing that Garuda technically doesn't save MP because with Ifrit you can deal more damage for the same MP cost.

Garuda is the AOE pet due to Contagion + Bane, not so much from Aerial Slash vs Flaming Crush (you're lucky to hit the mob you're attacking with Flaming Crush let alone AOE with it without rigorous micro management)