Yoshi P: Please Consider a Better Raiding System in 3.0 - Beyond Statics

[kyuven]

Tokens
I love this. Maybe not every win though.

Example:
Dreadwyrm piece = 30 Tokens
5 Tokens/Week

So if RNG is not your side for that piece you just cant get, then it will take about a month to earn it. I feel like that's not to much time nor to little.

It would take a month and a half. for a single piece. As long as this is supplemented with the current system and isn't instituted at launch (added, instead, as a feature around the time (insert whatever currency here) bonuses for first timers are added)
One caveat, though. Double or triple the reward if a majority of the players haven't cleared the content before.

[Reokudo]

No reduction of drop rates. RNG is terrible enough as it is.

[Kiara]

Didn't they already change the lock-out so that players that already cleared content can re-do it with another group (at the cost of less rewards)?

Yes, they did, but the new rule doesn't really promote *long-term* sustainability of guilds (FC / LS / Groups of Friends). Sure you can help them clear it perhaps, but with only 1 or No Chests at all. No one wants to do that long-term (for the betterment of the community).

The point is that what do you do with a FC / LS / Friends that are beyond the magic number of 8? "Sorry, we're full. Go find your own group to do stuff with. Bye."

How is this healthy for the long-term community of players? It's not.

[Roris]

It is pretty bad and it all comes out to a badly executed effort to stretch out this game's meager endgame content in hopes of retaining people for another 3-6 months. "Oh those gloves everyone has already dropped again, I really need those pants that never drop, oh well I'll sub for another month and even though it's been 3 months already maybe I'll get lucky this time."

They also really need more relevant endgame content in general and to stop putting relevant gear in only one piece of weekly locked out content. 1.0 had 3 dungeons, a primal/primals, GC stuff, Beastmen strongholds, Skirmish, Hamlet, the relic quest, even crafting. All these pieces of content offered gear of equal relevance, importance and power. Meanwhile ARR just has Coil and whatever tome gear, everything else is just catch up or already badly outdated the second a new gear tier hits or already surpassed the moment that content is released, a.k.a CT. The 1.0 RNG is pretty much still there, sure some items are guaranteed each week now but they're still random and you don't really get a chance to keep trying.

A token system from the 2.3 dungeons would be great. Now I get that 500k subs only lets them make so much content that has to be stretched out as thin as it can be, so why not have diminishing returns on the drop percentage per week then? Mind you, obviously this would only be for whatever Coil follow up, i.e. top endgame which I guess would be Alexander only for now, all other content would still be the same, though a token system wouldn't hurt for it either. Have the first clear of the week always be 2 guaranteed pieces, so busy people will always get something a week like an unidentified head piece that can be exchanged for the class gear they actually need, while "no lifers" can keep running the content until they get more of the stuff they want. It could be a 15% to 50% drop rate reduction either per piece obtained or per clear until it goes down as low as 10%, or maybe lower if they really want to stretch out stuff, with the percentage going back to 100% on the reset.

No lockouts or reduced chests either, simply have the chests drop other stuff when good gear doesn't drop, even stuff similar to Scorpion Shields and Spiked Armguards could be traded for seals which would still be useful. Every 50 or so clears also gets you a guaranteed drop. If they really wanted to limit how many people run whatever endgame content, they can still keep it unlocked but also add back the primal item turn ins from 1.0. Say you need 5 items to re-run Alexander or whatever after your free run of the week, each roulette gives 2 items and a dungeon/trial gives 1, FATEs, maps, etc. give shards of that item and once you get 5-10 you can convert it into 1 item. It would be another way of keeping the older content populated and also another reason to run it rather than just to cap tomes, better than what the awful relic quests do to keep it populated too.

Sadly so far there's not much indicating the current system will change. Alexander will have two difficulties but will most likely keep a lockout, while whatever CT follow up will also most likely still be the locked out catch up raid. I guess we'll see when they actually release more Hevensward info, but I wouldn't hope for a lot.

[raelgun]

Lock outs is good, who said you just need 8 people only, WOW raiding before the flex system runs with a guild group larger then the format in the roster, you go in each raid with 8 people here, but just have more then 8 people in your team, and rotate them out. WOW raiding has been doing this for 10 years, why cant you do this?
I prefer to raid with a select amount of people with similar skill set then a system that only benefits pugs and the nature of the fights needs to be made easier.

[Atomnium]

Didn't they already change the lock-out so that players that already cleared content can re-do it with another group (at the cost of less rewards)?

Way too much likes for this answer on the last 3h when the OP got not that many, it show well how clueless a part of our community is...

2.45 system didn't changed the raiders life, nothing, nada, niet. No one is using this system because it penalize people way too much.

We were expecting a possible personal weekly lock-out on loot per different tier with no restriction on entry in order to build bigger communities but nope. 2.45 was another nail in the coffin.
I can list dozens of people I would really love to play with it for raid contents but it's not possible. Because static of 8 or just because I, alone, would ruin their chests.

We are raiders but not allowed to socialize with other raiders to create bigger and useful communities, just because of what OP said...
There is actually FCs of raiding people but the only aspect of being part of such FC is just for the tag close to your name, you will most likely never ever play with other teams for raid contents.

I'm personally very sad of the current situation, it's like being punished and benched in the social way if you decide to be a raider, the only way to raid with different people is because your static broke at a point... How sad is that?

[Snugglebutt]

I'm all for more 24 man raids in this game and less 8 man content in terms of raids. Alliance content aka 24 man is more entertaining and interesting to me than full party aka 8 man content. This comment however is only loosely related to the topic but figured I would throw it out there anyways.

[Ophie-Mio]

2.45 system didn't changed the raiders life, nothing, nada, niet. No one is using this system because it penalize people way too much.

We were expecting a possible personal weekly lock-out on loot per different tier with no restriction on entry in order to build bigger communities but nope. 2.45 was another nail in the coffin.

This is the truth here. People were looking forward to helping out their FC members or LS mates with final coil but SE nailed us right where it counted. Instead of locking us out of loot individually, they decide to limit the chests...EVEN if it's just ONE person. Like one person could possibly tip the field enough to have a win.

What was something raiders hoped for and looked forward to, it ended up dying as soon as we understood what it was. The times where one of our raid members would drop and we would need a quick replacement, our bard kept offering her husband (who would limit the chest to one) and none of us ever accepted the offer because it just wasn't acceptable to get one chest.

We are raiders but not allowed to socialize with other raiders to create bigger and useful communities, just because of what OP said...

...like being punished and benched in the social way if you decide to be a raider, the only way to raid with different people is because your static broke at a point... How sad is that?

It's very sad. By standing for the Ready Check in Northern Thanalan, I know that there are tons of raiders...and yet we never speak to each other. There's no reason to. It's only the 8 of us and they only need the 8 of them. There's no conversations about strategy... There's only the benchmark and where another group currently is vs your own.
The only time you hear of different strategies is when it's available in PF and DF after being fully unlocked and someone tells you what to do and you're like, "Whoa, we did it differently."

And yeah, for the record, the only time we associated with other raiders was when members dropped and we needed PUGs to replace them or when we got new members. Beyond that, raiders just don't mingle.

[Kenji1134]

As has been suggested by a few people, perhaps the gear drops that we had in Snowcloak, Sastasha HM and Qarn HM, were a test of future coil drops.
Every time we add a new class, that class needs class specific loot, and we need to add more and more items to boss loot tables. Yet we still only see 2 items at a time.
Now consider what boss loot tables will look like when we add DRK, Machinist, and Astrologian... What happens when they have different stat needs from current classes? Will we have 3 MORE sets of gear? Will we end up with 12-13 sets of gear, with 2-3 pieces on each of 4 boss' loot tables? Do we really want bosses with loot tables with 26-39 different items, and we only get 2 per week???

An extension of the Snowcloak "era" approach would be ideal. Kill a boss, it drops 1 left and 1 right piece. Each boss can have 2 slots for each side...
So for example the first boss of the 3.0 raid would have the following loot table:
Ring, Wrist, Belt, Gloves.
Once you get one of these templates, you bring it to someone... maybe good ol' Gerolt, give em a drink, and he'll "style" it to meet your needs. No more gear going to waste! No more weeks upon weeks of farming for something that just doesnt drop!

Plus they can have more control over exactly what drops. For instance how some classes get their BiS chest from the first boss, others, often tanks, get their "raid" chest from the LAST boss... thats a big disparity.

[Sapphic]

This is the truth here. People were looking forward to helping out their FC members or LS mates with final coil but SE nailed us right where it counted. Instead of locking us out of loot individually, they decide to limit the chests...EVEN if it's just ONE person. Like one person could possibly tip the field enough to have a win.

You not thinking it through fully. One person can make ALL the difference as they can see and point out what they are doing wrong mechanics wise, explain how to do it and push forwards for the clear.

The system was made because players where complaining that they couldnt go back and help. So they added this, with a bonus of 1 chest when 4 or more players who havnt cleared it. What does that mean in the long term? Team A clears a turn, Team B are struggling. So Team A takes 4 of team B and runs them through, teaching them how to pass the part they are stuck on. Then Team A runs the other 4 of Team B through that turn, doing the same. Then the following week, due to training they got from Team A, go on to clear that turn.

Not to mention, limiting chest drops based on how many have cleared it sends a clear signal to Content sellers.