3rd Retainer by Default, please?

[Intaki]

I completely disagree with you, there is not a gameplay advantage

A single well-managed level 50 MIN/BTN retainer can make 100k+ gil per day. If that's not a gameplay advantage, I don't know what is.

[Kosmos992k]

Convenience factors are advantages.

Convenience, yes. Advantage, no.

There is no gameplay difference or change in game play due to having an additional retainer, it does not affect combat at all, nor does it impact on my ability to gather or craft. It does make inventory management easier for me because I do not discipline my use of inventory space, but that is not a gameplay advantage, it is a concenience.

A single well-managed level 50 MIN/BTN retainer can make 100k+ gil per day. If that's not a gameplay advantage, I don't know what is.

A retainer cannot make anything at all without the player doing something. If the retainer was going out on it's own and making 100K gil without any intervention by the player at all, it might be an advantage, but since the player has to actually do something to make that happen, it's not an advantage, it's simply content to play.

How is that retainer a gameplay advantage? Does it confer any special buffs or capabilities on the player? Does it make them faster on the ground, or able to teleport to any point on the map? Does it give them the ability to ignore attacks? Does it increase their HP? There is no gameplay advantage there.

You could argue that it makes it easier for a player to earn gil on the market boards, but at the end of the day the player still has to work with the game to obtain the gil, it's not automatic. So it's not an advantage, it's a convenience for the player. If you're saying that having the extra gil is an advantage, then every player who was ever fortunate to obtain any random drop that could be sold for millions of gil has an advantage, which is ridiculous.

I know many players who leveled all their crafts to 50 within months of ARR's launch. These players have earned millions upon millions of gil through the market board - and were doing so before the additional retainers came along. What advantage has their extra gil afforded them? A large house and the ability to purchase some decent overmelded gear that was quickly made obsolete by the next patch. of course they never really put the gear to good use since they spent their time crafting and playing the market boards instead of farming coils in a static.

There is no advantage here, it's a fallacy to suggest that the availability of additional paid retainers offers a gameplay advantage, it does not.

[CrystalRainbow]

Between the log for retainers being pay to complete or you having to log on near every 18 hours to finish.
Is reason enough to change this.

With more gear with up coming jobs this will be a must. Also revamping the gear system is needed.

Gear armory chest should almost be set to role, DPS Melee, DPS mage, Healer, Tank should all get there own chest.

[Aerowaffle]

Convenience, yes. Advantage, no.

There is no gameplay difference or change in game play due to having an additional retainer, it does not affect combat at all, nor does it impact on my ability to gather or craft. It does make inventory management easier for me because I do not discipline my use of inventory space, but that is not a gameplay advantage, it is a concenience.



A retainer cannot make anything at all without the player doing something. If the retainer was going out on it's own and making 100K gil without any intervention by the player at all, it might be an advantage, but since the player has to actually do something to make that happen, it's not an advantage, it's simply content to play.

How is that retainer a gameplay advantage? Does it confer any special buffs or capabilities on the player? Does it make them faster on the ground, or able to teleport to any point on the map? Does it give them the ability to ignore attacks? Does it increase their HP? There is no gameplay advantage there.

You could argue that it makes it easier for a player to earn gil on the market boards, but at the end of the day the player still has to work with the game to obtain the gil, it's not automatic. So it's not an advantage, it's a convenience for the player. If you're saying that having the extra gil is an advantage, then every player who was ever fortunate to obtain any random drop that could be sold for millions of gil has an advantage, which is ridiculous.

I know many players who leveled all their crafts to 50 within months of ARR's launch. These players have earned millions upon millions of gil through the market board - and were doing so before the additional retainers came along. What advantage has their extra gil afforded them? A large house and the ability to purchase some decent overmelded gear that was quickly made obsolete by the next patch. of course they never really put the gear to good use since they spent their time crafting and playing the market boards instead of farming coils in a static.

There is no advantage here, it's a fallacy to suggest that the availability of additional paid retainers offers a gameplay advantage, it does not.

Dealing damage isn't automatic, so does dps differences also constitute as a "convenience"?

If player A can put 40 items on the market and player B can put 60 items on the market, player B has an advantage on the market over player A. Having more gil than the other guy holds certain advantages. You can buy more things then they can.

Just because the advantage is in an aspect of the game that you don't believe matters, doesn't mean it isn't an advantage. If it's part of the game, and you're able to do more things than another person trying to do the same, then it's an advantage.

[Kosmos992k]

Dealing damage isn't automatic, so does dps differences also constitute as a "convenience"?

What is this thing called "auto attack" again?

How does an extra retainer deal damage for you?

Sure damage dealing is core gameplay, but there is nothing inherent to an additional retainer that in any way enhances a player's capability in that regard.

Having more gil than others is an advantage, but the player who spends frugally will have more gil than the player who re-glamors their gear every day of the week. The point being all players have differing amounts of gil, some are high level crafters and are rolling in gil, some are not, and can't even afford a small house plot (not that any are left). The advantage of additional gil is the ability to purchase stuff on the market boards or in shops, it does not affect gameplay.

It is a fallacy to suggest that the availability of paid retainers offers a *gameplay* advantage, it does not.

If I go to the mog station and purchase two optional retainers, and then log in to the game, what gameplay advantage has purchasing the optional retainer service granted me? In truth nothing has changed for me in-game. I cannot run faster, hit harder, take more damage, have more hit points, resist more status effects, teleport to more locations, gather more quickly, craft any better, etc... I do not automatically gain extra gil, or extra materials. Only if I spend time using my time to earn ventures can I get my retainers to obtain things for me. In that same time I could be gathering or crafting things myself to sell rather than earning ventures for the retainer to use. Either way, the earning potential of the retainer is 100% dependent on my actions as a player.

Without the additional retainers the same would be true using the two free retainers. There is no advantage here because retainers cannot earn ventures for other retainers to use. So, the player either spends their time earning ventures, or doing what they would otherwise send their retainer to do. It's kind of a 1-1 exchange for the player because one way or the other they have top expend effort to get something.

What a retainer does offer without the player doing anything is additional inventory space which is sure as hell convenient, but it's not a *gameplay* advantage. A player more disciplined than I can be just as effective with two retainers worth of inventory as I am with 4. But simply having more inventory slots available on a retainer does not alter my gameplay.

[Aerowaffle]

What is this thing called "auto attack" again?

How does an extra retainer deal damage for you?

Sure damage dealing is core gameplay, but there is nothing inherent to an additional retainer that in any way enhances a player's capability in that regard.

Having more gil than others is an advantage, but the player who spends frugally will have more gil than the player who re-glamors their gear every day of the week. The point being all players have differing amounts of gil, some are high level crafters and are rolling in gil, some are not, and can't even afford a small house plot (not that any are left). The advantage of additional gil is the ability to purchase stuff on the market boards or in shops, it does not affect gameplay.

It is a fallacy to suggest that the availability of paid retainers offers a *gameplay* advantage, it does not.

If I go to the mog station and purchase two optional retainers, and then log in to the game, what gameplay advantage has purchasing the optional retainer service granted me? In truth nothing has changed for me in-game. I cannot run faster, hit harder, take more damage, have more hit points, resist more status effects, teleport to more locations, gather more quickly, craft any better, etc... I do not automatically gain extra gil, or extra materials. Only if I spend time using my time to earn ventures can I get my retainers to obtain things for me. In that same time I could be gathering or crafting things myself to sell rather than earning ventures for the retainer to use. Either way, the earning potential of the retainer is 100% dependent on my actions as a player.

Without the additional retainers the same would be true using the two free retainers. There is no advantage here because retainers cannot earn ventures for other retainers to use. So, the player either spends their time earning ventures, or doing what they would otherwise send their retainer to do. It's kind of a 1-1 exchange for the player because one way or the other they have top expend effort to get something.

What a retainer does offer without the player doing anything is additional inventory space which is sure as hell convenient, but it's not a *gameplay* advantage. A player more disciplined than I can be just as effective with two retainers worth of inventory as I am with 4. But simply having more inventory slots available on a retainer does not alter my gameplay.

I don't think you get it. Earning gil is part of gameplay. Owning a house is gameplay. Just because you deem it unnecessary doesn't make it not gameplay. We're playing a video-game, all aspects of the game is unnecessary. A person can play happily for their entire time in ffxiv without even touching anything past level 50 on battle classes. They are still playing the game and still care about the advantages and disadvantages in the aspects that they are a part of.

[polyhedral]

Paying for additional retainers could in some peoples' eyes, be pay to win. More retainer ventures, more space to sell items, and play the market board. It's solely what I rely on to make my money, having 4 retainers....

Think about it... It's pay to win (gil), or don't bother thinking at all and I'll still continue to make more gil than you do with my retainers regardless, lmao.

[Intaki]

You could argue that it makes it easier for a player to earn gil on the market boards, but at the end of the day the player still has to work with the game to obtain the gil, it's not automatic. So it's not an advantage, it's a convenience for the player.

A player with two retainers (fully leveled in DoL classes) can leverage those retainers to make 200k+ per day on average (and that's a conservative estimate). A player with three retainers can make 300k+ with the same investment of time and effort.

What advantage has their extra gil afforded them? A large house and the ability to purchase some decent overmelded gear that was quickly made obsolete by the next patch.

By that logic we should be allowed to buy Coil gear from vendors.

Also, you should never, ever need to farm venture tokens if you're doing your daily roulettes. Turning in gear for seals makes keeping ventures in stock utterly trivial.

[Violyre]

I have four retainers, and I see no issue with this beyond people taking this as an advantage to request the fourth one free too, but that's an issue with the community, not this idea.

But I'll let you in on one thing...

All of my retainers are full...

[Noshpan]

As much as I would love to have a 3rd retainer for free (my entertainment budget doesn't have the wiggle room for a subscription fee AND additional rental retainers), just so I can have a retainer from every major city and put that nagging bit of OCD in me to rest, I don't see it happening.