I think its time BRD get some loving

[Niasha]

I can't believe Snuggle sees nothing wrong with Bards being able to regen everyone, including themselves, at anytime during the fight with no consequences other than loss of MP. Lol

[Ehayte]

If the DMG buff you are asking for is so non-substantial, why do you care if you get it?

You are basically saying, "Aw come on, a little bit won't hurt. Its my birthday, and I wants it."

[rappa]

WTF? NO, the penalty is fine. The weapon damage is wrong now.

Allagan bow 42 WD
Allagan melee 46 WD

+4 difference

High allagan bow 48 WD
High allawan melee 53 WD

+5 difference

Dreadwyrm bow 52 WD
dreadwyrm melee 58 WD

+6 difference

Each patch, the difference is increased and the bard dps is behind.
If the difference between WD is the same would be not a problem, but now exist.

I reply again, i don't want to be top dps in all fights. If i am on the top, someone is not doing his job.

[Snugglebutt]

What will be your trade off for giving tp and mp to the whole party then? If they dont have the debuff everything 8man will be 3brds 1drg healers and tanks. 1 brd paeon 1 brd ballad when their mp run out the 3th brd ballad rinse and repeat, infinite mp and tp.

How is lowering the damage output of a bard which is most of the time lower than most other DPS classes anyways for most people even without that debuff a good trade off for singing songs since even when not singing songs their DPS is rarely on par with many of the other DPS classes? If we need or must have a debuff for singing those songs then such debuffs should be kept inline more to the resource management side of things than a %damage debuff on an already generally lower damage dealing class. To me the %damage debuff is salt in the wound of a class which generally suffers from that aspect even without the debuff.

Bards are almost never chosen to be part of a group because of their DPS and that will not change with or without the debuff, other classes will not magically become less relevant or more important for the group selection without the debuff. The necessity of the songs has not changed, the use of the songs is not increased or decreased really much based on the effect on the DPS because the amount of DPS that is gained from when not singing is not very much at all. To me the damage debuff is a pointless additional punishment on a bards damage that does not affect most players outside of maybe the top hardcore niche players some people are using as their benchmark for balancing and so the damage debuff should be removed.

The teams composition will not change without the debuff, the team does not suffer if did not have the debuff and the DPS increase which would not be that vast for most people so would have zero effect on which classes people bring into the group or play in general. If someone thinks removal of the %damage debuff would lead to some magical large scale increase in people playing bards, I think they are wrong. The class would still be picked because of the spot it fills for the songs and not it's DPS with or without the debuff and it's DPS for probably 90% (again a guess) of the player base will not shoot up very much at all. It would not become some DPS monster that would draw people in en masse, it would still be a song form of support class with okay DPS for most even without the debuff.

It would create a tiny amount of DPS boost to the majority of bards but not so much that would imbalance anything overall. The songs will still be played as often and at similar times as before only it might actually increase the amount of bards willing to play songs...which in itself is a problem these days due to the desire for most to try and alleviate the DPS drop from these debuff penalties and bad WD. The debuff seems quite pointless doing so little in the way of balancing that it becomes waste of time keeping due to other factors like gear, rotations, player ability and group composition.

That is my main point and I equate the debuff to as said earlier slapping someone in the face for baking you a cake or in this case buffing everyone. I do not hate debuffs in general but I do hate that this particular debuff targets our %damage when playing songs. If your going to debuff the class or balance it, pick on something other than it's already pretty low DPS within general population, resource management would be where I would suggest if we must have a debuff on our songs but remove the %damage debuff. Solve two birds with one stone, change the debuff or remove it will increase the amount of bards willing to play songs which benefits everyone while at same time stop the nerfing of our DPS when playing songs, instead re-align the debuff potentially to the resource management side of things.

I can't believe Snuggle sees nothing wrong with Bards being able to regen everyone, including themselves, at anytime during the fight with no consequences other than loss of MP. Lol

Again, my problem is this debuff is a fairly large %damage lowering debuff that is why I want it decreased or removed. If want to replace that debuff type with another one which doesn't limit something which is already very limited for most people who play bard then I am open to other suggestions but I do very much think the %damage debuff needs decreasing or removing, replacing the %damage reduction with MP or TP resource management option would be better than %damage. Healers buff other classes and their only resource cost is MP too, so I do not think that is fair argument to make especially when healers are almost as mobile as bards and both equally as squishy plus bards songs have fairly large casting times combined with any movement cancelling it just like healers buffs sometimes do.

[AkashiXI]

At work so I can't type out much, but I completely agree with the notion to increase our WD. Truly, the only people who are seeing the damage differential between other dps and Bard are the ones who are actively FARMING Fcob, not those who are barely clearing/clearing for the first time. I'm not making a division, I'm simply saying the dramatic difference between our dps is becoming increasingly worse.

Also to those who are saying smn needs a buff before bard - why not both at the same time? We all know Square can nerf multiple jobs at once... lol.

[SlyRoyale]

As a BRD main, I disagree that we should be buffed in any way. We've already had our nerfs back in 2.1 regarding our cross-class abilities and having lower weapon damage than other jobs. Considering that we are a mobile ranged DPS job with support utility that can even top the charts (which shouldn't be happening unless everyone else is underperforming), this is fine. We are the least affected by mechanics in regards to our numbers, and even though Ballad and Paeon reduce our damage we don't have to play them all the time. A part of knowing how to play as a BRD is to recognize not only when to sing but for how long. Foe Requiem can be kept up until mana runs out since it doesn't nerf our damage while buffing all caster damage. Army's Paeon can be kept up for about 45-60 seconds on average depending if it is Battle Voiced or not. For Mage's Ballad, you just need to make sure the healers and SMN are no longer in the danger zone and can turn if off after that.

Oh, and another thing I should mention is Barrage. With the shorter delay times on the Ironworks and Yoichi Bows, we can squeeze in a 4th auto-attack during Barrage if timed right. When used with Hawk's Eye and Blood for Blood in our CD cycle, this is a respectable DPS spike. Will you get that 4th auto-attack every time? Maybe not, but with proper timing like some WARs do to get that extra hit in during Berserk after Unchained falls off, the spike should be noticeable.

Instead of asking for a buff on the OF, and this will make me sound like an elitist prick, fellow BRDs need to learn how to play the job properly. That's the truth. Are we the weaker of the DPS? Yes. Does that prevent us from doing respectable damage considering what we bring to the table? Absolutely not. If you don't agree with that, NIN makes good use of those aiming accessories, and DRGs deal piercing damage as well. If you ask me, BRD damage is fine the way it is.

[rappa]

Summoner suffer the same shit as Bard, a wrong itemization or maybe, design.

Having crit or determination is useful in both class.
Accuracy is necessary too.
But skill/spell speed on bards and summoner is a dead weight.

Summoner are forced to use energy drain to recover mana because Ruin I "ruins" your mana, and spell speed don't increase your dots damage or how is affected. So, you are losing one secondary stat.

Bards have the same situation, skill speed doesn't increase your damage, but the consequence is that you need to play Paeon, not only for your party, just for you.

Check this gear http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/PIT0

[Kuwagami]

snip

not really, the scaling is more or les the same (15% for i95 => i115 and 9% for i115 => i135)

WD difference increases but that's because it's lower at start.

if anything, you should complain because the increase was lower for i115 => i135 than for i95 => i115

[AkashiXI]

As a BRD main, I disagree that we should be buffed in any way. We've already had our nerfs back in 2.1 regarding our cross-class abilities and having lower weapon damage than other jobs. Considering that we are a mobile ranged DPS job with support utility that can even top the charts (which shouldn't be happening unless everyone else is underperforming), this is fine. We are the least affected by mechanics in regards to our numbers, and even though Ballad and Paeon reduce our damage we don't have to play them all the time. A part of knowing how to play as a BRD is to recognize not only when to sing but for how long. Foe Requiem can be kept up until mana runs out since it doesn't nerf our damage while buffing all caster damage. Army's Paeon can be kept up for about 45-60 seconds on average depending if it is Battle Voiced or not. For Mage's Ballad, you just need to make sure the healers and SMN are no longer in the danger zone and can turn if off after Oh, and another thing I should mention is Barrage. With the shorter delay times on the Ironworks and Yoichi Bows, we can squeeze in a 4th auto-attack during Barrage if timed right. When used with Hawk's Eye and Blood for Blood in our CD cycle, this is a respectable DPS spike. Will you get that 4th auto-attack every time? Maybe not, but with proper timing like some WARs do to get that extra hit in during Berserk after Unchained falls off, the spike should be noticeable.

Instead of asking for a buff on the OF, and this will make me sound like an elitist prick, fellow BRDs need to learn how to play the job properly. That's the truth. Are we the weaker of the DPS? Yes. Does that prevent us from doing respectable damage considering what we bring to the table? Absolutely not. If you don't agree with that, NIN makes good use of those aiming accessories, and DRGs deal piercing damage as well. If you ask me, BRD damage is fine the way it is.

How much final coil do you do? Serious question. If your answer is yes, how much does your dps do over you? I can barely obtain 450 with ideal settings, yet my Monk and Dragoon static members never hit under 550, sometimes reaching near 600. Are you telling me the songs I provide and the mobility I gain (on non moving mobs 95% of the time in Fcob) validates that huge disparity?

[Kuwagami]

How much final coil do you do? Serious question. If your answer is yes, how much does your dps do over you? I can barely obtain 450 with ideal settings, yet my Monk and Dragoon static members never hit under 550, sometimes reaching near 600. Are you telling me the songs I provide and the mobility I gain (on non moving mobs 95% of the time in Fcob) validates that huge disparity?

it does. Without you, their dps would be downed by a lot if they wanted to save their TP. Now they have a BRD, and can focus more on damage than on TP, thus doing more overall. Should they run TP starved, their dps would drop from 550ish to 0 instantly. What's the best for the group ? your choice.