I think its time BRD get some loving

[Snugglebutt]

I'm surprised to see a "buff brd" thread. On the list of classes that I think need help, bard isn't on it. If I had to list each class in a "get buff" order, brd would be on the bottom. Not only is it almost mandatory(I've down t10-t12 with three melee and a caster...) to have a bard, but this is the first time I've ever heard a complaint about bards in general. I thought bards were in a good place. o_O

I see people keep using the excuse of some high end 8 man coils having a bard is preferred as part of a static but in no 24 man raids are bards in any way mandatory, in no 4 man dungeons are bards mandatory, in no open world content are bards mandatory, not even in any trials are bards mandatory and in most of the coils bards are not mandatory either. So I do not buy into this whole idea that because the class is preferred in a few later coils...that bards should be happy that they are lumbered with a 10% and 20% damage debuff for playing songs across the entire spectrum of content in the game.

If you are going to debuff the songs then debuff it with something other than a fairly large limitation on our already fairly low DPS, pick another way to debuff like perhaps more along the lines of MP/TP resource management debuff or even a slight movement debuff would be better than a massive 20% damage debuff. We already have fairly low DPS for most bards in general (with a few exceptions inside the hardcore minority) both in terms of WD, skill stats and such compared to other DPS classes so I see no reason to specifically lower our DPS further when playing songs. Pick a different way to debuff us if a debuff is even needed.

I have no problem with having debuffs for our songs but I do have a problem that they keep targeting our DPS to debuff when we already have lower DPS in general than almost all other DPS classes. The only possible exception is perhaps lancer for physical DPS classes and summoner for caster classes. Both summoners and lancers also need improving.

That's what annoys me. Not that we have a debuff in itself but specifically what that debuff is...which is a large %damage debuff.

[rappa]

There is not reason to increase the difference between bards and melee jobs. We have less weapon damage than them.

Btw. I did turn 13 with my alter ninja ilvl 121 (weapon 115), i did 40 more dps than bard and our raid did more global dps.
We skipped more mechanics, goad on our mnk and our dragoon/tanks can support the tp necessary for the raid without lost 20% damage. Manasong is not useful on turn 13 if people plays well.

Adds died more fast, ergo more time to recover resources as tp and mana.

[Gardes]

Lmao the only preferred dps in 4man is only blm and seriously who gives a damn about whats in a 24man other than "not stupid"?

[Snugglebutt]

Lmao the only preferred dps in 4man is only blm and seriously who gives a damn about whats in a 24man other than "not stupid"?

You completely missed the point I was making.

[Lufir]

BRDs are fine, if not perfect. I love them in my parties and never complain or notice that their DPS is lacking, with or without songs.
SMNs on the other hand, I cringe when I get one in a party. I always think what does a SMN bring to the table that a BLM can't do better?

[ChriZirhC]

+1 WD on all 2.4-2.5 tier bows. thats all im asking.

[Elim]

stuff

wait...wat

Like I said, I have cleared t10-t12 without a bard. It was a huge pain in the ass though. And the LB bar filled slowly, so that was off too. Most people wouldn't do what my group did.

Bards have the good life compared to other DPS. Not only are they the most mobile(making them the best candidate to do many mechanics in coil), but they have the most raid utility. They are also one of the most simplistic classes to play. Their downside? Not being top DPS. I just...I don't see why having one downside is bad? Why should they get buffs over smn? Hardly anyone wants smns in their coil parties now.

Also, lol, I don't understand why you're bringing up 24 men and dungeons. Classes usually aren't tuned around casual content.

[Snugglebutt]

BRDs are fine, if not perfect. I love them in my parties and never complain or notice that their DPS is lacking, with or without songs.
SMNs on the other hand, I cringe when I get one in a party. I always think what does a SMN bring to the table that a BLM can't do better?

I see quite often in high DPS check content, people whine about bards being present when for example kiting is not required or the party does not have a vast amount of casters in which to benefit from Foes etc. Most of the time such comments come from monks. I do however agree SMN need improving as I think LNR does too but I do not think just because they deserve their DPS increased that it invalidates BRDs removal, decrease or even exchange of the %damage debuff with another form of debuff. It is not a one or the other situation to me, all three I think could be improved.

[DoubleD]

The situation is...keeping a support class on your party is a dead weight.

Turn 13 and talking to parsing dps.

- Mnk: 550
- drg: 540
- blm: 525
- brd: 450
- nin: 545

All same gear and skill, and affected by the same numbers of mechanics.

Without bard dps and bringing another one, you can skip more mechanics,so you can't run of tp because P3 is reached more fast and your tp is recovered before you starved. A good white mage can handle his mana without spamming useless cures.

I killed turn 13 with my bard and i hadn't play any song, only Foe requiem at start and after 2nd divebombs when twintania land.

Each patch, our WD is nerfed and other dps scale well. If SE doesn't change that, maybe the difference between others dps and bards will be 100 dps or more. And the support class would be not necessary

THANK YOU. Finally someone that gets it.

This is what I've been trying to say the whole time. And those are pretty generous numbers for a bard imo that probally only a few elite groups can reach. I consider myself a pretty decent player, but hover around 430ish.

Of course a good bard can out-parse noob players of other DPS classes. Even summoner can.
The real issue is when you compare a GOOD Bard's output to a GOOD other DPS output. The gap is just huge.

When looking at it 450 vs 535 seems small, but do you know how much total damage that is in actual damage numbers??

And look, people saying Foes DPS is the bards... It's not.
If you have a caster in your raid group - singing foes is a DEFAULT. Even on regular 4-man dungeons, ex-primals, crystal tower or whatever, even if you don't have a caster singing foes is still a default!! As long as there's even a WHM or SCH in your party, foes is default. Any bard with Max-MP at the end of the fight should quit and play another job basically. They are "ARCHER". Not bard.

PS - Bards Ballad is only needed during progression and running in between trash mobs to recharge your WHM's holy MP. It isn't needed on any other content outside of emergencies, which ideally should be very seldom. Or if your 8 man party consists of BRD / BRD / SMN / SMN. One bard sing foe, other one sing ballad.

Outside of the latest 8-man raid which can really use Paeon, the only time anyone is happy with a BRD in your party is a BLM, just for foes.

Keep in mind, none of the other other jobs have had their Weapon Damage blatantly nerfed.
The DPS hierarchy was already established with the 115 weapons. No single bard would come close to any other equally skilled / equally geared class. It isn't physically possible. Then 2.4 comes around with 135 weapons and for some reason they nerf our weapons even more!? Why??? This is my main issue. SE already had us on the bottom of the totem pole (which I didn't mind), but I seriously have an issue with them nerfing the Weapon damage even further than it already was.

[DoubleD]

And this is true story. FC mate did a pug for T10.

BAD Bard (115 Shiva bow, Ironworks Chest, Ironworks Legs - yes seriously.) - 260 DPS
Normal Monk - 450 DPS