Thread: Request: 3.0 Job Customizing

The gear grind is it part of every MMO and developer haven't replaced that system yet. There two types of end game progression the gear grind and increasing the innate power of the player character abilities.

Originally Posted by Akiza

The gear grind is it part of every MMO and developer haven't replaced that system yet. There two types of end game progression the gear grind and increasing the innate power of the player character abilities.

The reason I responded to this thread is, this is changing with the first expansion for Guild Wars 2. One of the big changes they have been talking about is the idea of leveling gear via skills you can get, in this case a new npc race I believe will give you different skills to level up or increase your gear's abilities. Even though this is just one game, I would hope there is movement in this direction for other games including this one.

Originally Posted by Kuwagami

how so ? It's just a flat damage/heal increase...

Because there are auto-crit abilities on which Crit is wasted while Det instead increases their bonuses and for its added reliability, it is the top stat for all jobs except Black Mage or where a class/lob mechanic gives an abnormally high reliance on Crit (Bloodletter and Adlo). Due to Det's higher price (less Det than Crit/SS/Acc on a given piece of same ilvl gear if the other secondary was identical at an identical amount), critical strike may still edge it out very slightly on Ninja and possibly DRG (less so since LS's CD reduc), especially if the Det value is already high, thereby increasing the worth of other stats, but that's about it. It's an altogether excellent stat, whereas only BLM can make real use of Speed and Crit can go to waste or perform unreliably (Monk; tanks and healers).

Originally Posted by Akiza

Job customization is how the class and job system should work anyways.

The Class should be base skills that each disciple of war and magic should have.
The Job should be specialized talent trees within each class having skills that are unique to each individual job.

You say "customization" but they only exist as stepping stones and the real form respectively. Without classes being at least situationally viable, jobs are not a form of customization in their own right. And even if they were made viable, you'd be given the option of a full set of tools to a certain purpose and the 'full set minus 5 abilities', with an absolutely haphazard pick of abilities in place of those 5. That does not make for an especially interesting playstyle (especially given cross-class skills in their current form).

Originally Posted by IsaacDamodred

My stats shouldn't be overwhelmingly determined by my gear. A naked level 50 char should still have plenty of inherent power from the just that fact that it LEVELED 49 times.

I have to agree with you, but at the same time I feel obliged to note how little time is spent leveling a character to cap compared to the time spent after that. Without a new system in place (say... AP, as opposed to XP) that does not cap, gear will have to be the measure of that continued play after cap, rather than xp.

...Here's hoping for said system, then?

(That said, this, much like an unchangeable set of bonus attributes, would lack the versatility of multiple gear choices for someone who has multiple top ilvl gear sets. It would aid consistency and the gear dependence a bit less ridiculous, but, in the end, not necessarily customization. Something that bridges the gap between ilvls somewhat, allowing the use of a particular i100 piece for its secondary stats over an i120 piece, would probably be the most useful as far as "customization goes". But by now I'm just thinking to myself. Please ignore.)

Originally Posted by Akiza

Job customization is how the class and job system should work anyways.

The Class should be base skills that each disciple of war and magic should have.
The Job should be specialized talent trees within each class having skills that are unique to each individual job.

Before 2.0 they said classes would be versatile for many different situations while Jobs were "specialized" for very specific content. This never worked, for two major reasons:
1) Instead of reducing some stats while raising others, the Job Soul Crystal only adds stats to the Job, making it superior to its class counterpart.
2) The selection of cross-class skills usable by classes can't compare to the game-changing abilities Jobs get, once again, making the job superior.

I like your idea. I think this system can still be salvaged, but I'd rather they just get rid of these "classes" that IMO, don't belong in the FF universe. Same skills from level 1-50 with the only exception being Scholar and Summoner needing extra attention to properly differentiate the two.

Originally Posted by LandricFrey

So you're saying that WoW was never a AAA MMO? In vanilla and TBC I remember Paladins and Warriors being viable dps options as well as tanks, and shadow priests with staggering damage output. I also remember classes in that game were fairly well balanced in PVE and PVP. Saying something would be hard to do is a poor excuse for giving up on an idea. It can be done, it has been done, and I have a feeling SE could do it better!

Sorry, you got me on "in vanilla and TBC WoW, PALADINS and Warriors were viable options for dps aside from tanking".

You sir lived in your own delusions then. While a Warrior could be optimal, PALADINS were pure crap, both in tanking and especially dps during the first 4 years of WoW. They were only viable for Single Target Healing and more than anything buffing Blessing of Kings. Shadow Priests on the other hand provided more raid utility by offering life leeching and mana aside from a decent damage too.

Originally Posted by BlueThunder

Sorry, you got me on "in vanilla and TBC WoW, PALADINS and Warriors were viable options for dps aside from tanking".

You sir lived in your own delusions then. While a Warrior could be optimal, PALADINS were pure crap, both in tanking and especially dps during the first 4 years of WoW. They were only viable for Single Target Healing and more than anything buffing Blessing of Kings. Shadow Priests on the other hand provided more raid utility by offering life leeching and mana aside from a decent damage too.

You're missing the point. The fact that all classes could successfully take on different roles is the main focus here. I said they were "viable" not the very best. I healed and/or dps on shamans, druids, and priests in any situation it worked. If it was a raid, maybe a certain healer or tank wouldn't be the best option, but that person would be the Off-tank or support healer. It worked.

Talent tree's in that game allowed a simple form of job customization by either letting you chose you group role or how you manage your damage, and even though that is the simplest and most cliche suggestion, it's still better than nothing IMO.

Originally Posted by LandricFrey

snip.

I'm not missing the point, and I know what giving each class "talent trees" will cause in the future. I spent 9 years on WoW to see how much damage it causes the massive amount of cries because X talent tree of Y class is Z powerful or not, which Blizzard always handled by buffing and nerfing here and there all over the place, causing big unbalance at all sides 90% of the time.

And there was no Uniqueness in WoW anyways, everybody would follow a predetermined good build of talents, so your point is completely invalid. Those who would try something of their liking and bizzarre would get rejected because their choice was very poor and not the standard to follow. Even now that talent trees have vanished into a certain amount of skills you can choose of your liking, people will pick up those that work best anyways.