Job and Subjob system instead of classes?

[Jennestia]

Hopefully this doesn't get buried, but can someone explain to me what is wrong with classes as they exist now? Where there's a tool for every class, and you become that class when you put the tool on (primarily), and you have access to many (most?) of the abilities you learned from other classes, to then put together a mix of things that works well for you?

What is wrong with that?

No class is unique, no class brings anything to a party (recent healing changes somewhat changes this, but all frontline are still exactly the same with a different weapon graphic.)

Nothing works well in FFXIV, which is why they're introducing the job system. They wouldn't be adding the job system if they decided the class system is absolutely perfect.

[Corrderio]

No class is unique, no class brings anything to a party (recent healing changes somewhat changes this, but all frontline are still exactly the same with a different weapon graphic.)

Nothing works well in FFXIV, which is why they're introducing the job system. They wouldn't be adding the job system if they decided the class system is absolutely perfect.

And? Nothing stopping SE from doing what you said with the classes.

[Jennestia]

And? Nothing stopping SE from doing what you said with the classes.

Clearly there is, or else we wouldn't be getting a job system.

[Corrderio]

Clearly there is, or else we wouldn't be getting a job system.

Job system was mostly for the whiners that wanted "FF jobs" or whatever the dumb excuse was. Nothing is stopping SE from making the higher tier abilities restricted to the class it came from.

[Gennosuke]

Job system was mostly for the whiners that wanted "FF jobs" or whatever the dumb excuse was. Nothing is stopping SE from making the higher tier abilities restricted to the class it came from.

Gee, for SE to take on such a decision, The vast majority of fans must have been 'Whiners'.
And ofcourse you're the level headed one whom they chose to ignore.

Dumb excuse? Class uniqueness and traditional FF job system is a dumb excuse? are you serious? I guess you must have hated the majority of FF series in that case.

[Seikninkuru]

Gee, for SE to take on such a decision, The vast majority of fans must have been 'Whiners'.
And ofcourse you're the level headed one whom they chose to ignore.

Dumb excuse? Class uniqueness and traditional FF job system is a dumb excuse? are you serious? I guess you must have hated the majority of FF series in that case.

Yes they are dumb excuses and yes the majority of FF games are boring and uninteresting.

[notebene]

No class is unique, no class brings anything to a party (recent healing changes somewhat changes this, but all frontline are still exactly the same with a different weapon graphic.)

Nothing works well in FFXIV, which is why they're introducing the job system. They wouldn't be adding the job system if they decided the class system is absolutely perfect.

I guess I never thought it was 'perfect'.

So it's mostly about the paradigm of the party system then? Trying to establish 'the holy trinity and friends' so the people that form parties can decide who to take and who to not take with them in any situation based on their job name? I thought it 'might' be mostly about that, but I didn't want to make any assumptions.

I guess on the one hand, it would have been nice if 'the world' (that our characters live in) wasn't put together in such a way that lends itself the system, rather than abandoning a more organic progression in favor of the old paradigm of needing a tank, and a healer, and some dps people, to make a party.

It just seems like the holy trinity strangles creativity when it comes to bringing a character into a virtual world, then deciding what you want to become. I've also been playing a bit of Rift lately, and that was supposed to be this amazing thing where you have this 1-of-4 base class, and then you can mix together all this wonderful stuff and be whatever you want. But at the end of the day, the complaints are the same thing as in any MMO: Where are the tanks and healers?

It would be nice to go to a dungeon with 5 people, and across the 5 people, there was enough of what you needed to do to overcome the situation.

But at least I understand it 'seems' like it's mostly about the trinity, and getting some clear cut labels on people to make it easier for the Type A leaders to decide whether you will be useful to their group or not.

That sounds fun, for people who really need that to hang on to. I hope they, as they say, also keep the base class concepts around that they have now, where you pick up 'cards' that you learn from various classes and put your deck together and then go out in the world as your base class (depending on your tool) and your deck of cards. That seems new and interesting and different to me still

Thank you for responding! Many of my questions get buried, probably because they aren't very good questions, but often times I get curious as to why people are fighting about things I don't really understand.

[Davorok]

A lot of peeps seem to be having difficulty understanding the concept of the Job System so I will try to use a real world analogy to explain. Military Operations.

If you are fighting a battle in an outdoor environment you want soldiers that are cross-trained in many weapons, tactics and basic first-aid. This way you can adapt to changing battlefield environments, pick up a fallen soldiers weapon, apply first-aid, even run away and regroup to try another assault tactic. Open World battles are less about teamwork and more about attrition and adaptability.

Special Forces Missions are quite different. You have a small group of highly trained specialists who must act as a team, each one carrying out his role to perfection in order to achieve a clear objective, whether it be capturing/killing Bin Laden, rescuing hostages, sabotage or even intelligence gathering. Each team member has a specialty (with some cross-class training) ie., Heavy Weapons, Sniper, Engineer/Demolitions, Medic, Communications/IT(computers). Think of Team Fortress or even Halo as examples. Yes each soldier can do the others job in a pinch but for the team to operate in top form and effeciency, each member must use his specialties.

So just think of FFXIV Classes as the well rounded, cross trained soldier that can be sent into any situation and has a decent chance at success if he can adapt to changing environs and enemies. (Open-World Quests and Grinding)

Think of FFXIV Jobs as Navy Seals or Army Rangers (specialists) who are sent in to a specific location to do a specific mission and rely heavily on teamwork to achieve their objective. (Dungeons & Raids).

I realize the analogy kinda falls apart if we are to believe that a Navy Seal/Ranger is useless out in the field apart from his team but I suspect/guess that The Grand Companies are somehow going to magically "imbue us" with these extra abilities/jobs just for the duration of the Mission/Dungeon/Raid.

Some of my thoughts anyway...probably wrong...usually am...so move along...nothing to see here.

http://youtu.be/4EYlXay0njE