Translation Team: Please stop doing this...

[Rubicon]

"Yo wuzzup dawg, I hurd u wanted a big ole battle. Lez do it!" - Ramuh

No.

[Gilthas]

Would you care to recommend me some books that have these types of accents?
I'm not sure if your post was coming off rude or what, if I've been reading books
but don't recall any that has such strong accents like this.

I'm reading this games text, and I've learned new words and looked some up just to expand my vocab.
The pirate speak is too much for me, I tried it.

I was being serious.

You only learn standard English in classes if you're living in a non-english speaking country.

If you want to see this type of language you need to start reading books in English. Fantasy books often have a character or two speaking with a funny accent.

Though the pirate speech IS annoying. Rest of the game isn't that unusual.

[Viridiana]

Rather then trying to find your own interpretation, do you not feel it is more sensible to respond to the arguments I made via the quotes I refered to?

So, to recap:

You want the EN to stay truer to the "original" JP text.
I pointed out that the "original" JP text is in fact often modified by the "derivative" translations.
You say that this must be mistaken.
I link Ferne discussing how the "original" is often modified by the "derivative" translations.
You assert that the story dialogue's meaning changes radically between languages.

To be clear, I've seen this assertion often. And sometimes it's true. I'm aware that Haurchefant, for one, is characterized much differently in JP than EN. I really don't think it's as much of an issue as you're making it out to be.

[Mugiawara]

I was being serious.

You only learn standard English in classes if you're living in a non-english speaking country.

If you want to see this type of language you need to start reading books in English. Fantasy books often have a character or two speaking with a funny accent.

Though the pirate speech IS annoying. Rest of the game isn't that unusual.

I apologize I meant to say is; I understand the rest of the text. [Even though annoying at some points. Seriously, context clues are your friend lol!]
But as I said on the other post, I never read any book that had Pirate speak or is that what you meant? The rest is fine. Limnsa nope.
That is why I asked for recommendations. You can easily find any other of these languages anywhere.
Been sometime since I've been in High School but we only had random stories, some Shakespeare, Poe and so on.
We honestly didn't have much but kiddie books to be honest. :/

[Seig345]

Urianger is in thy library, expanding thy lexicon. Cope.

Honestly though, over the course of playing this game, I've picked up on what those words mean through the context.

[Gunspec]

And sometimes it's true. I'm aware that Haurchefant, for one, is characterized much differently in JP than EN. I really don't think it's as much of an issue as you're making it out to be.

Actually, I think Haurchefant was dialed back in the English version this patch, to be more like his Japanese equivalent. At least, I didn't feel a huge difference between his English text and Japanese voice this time. Maybe pointing it out led to some changes? And Urianger didn't spew poetry out of his mouth this patch either.

[TouchandFeel]

@ Mugiawara

Some good reads that use some older forms of English that can be reminiscent of the forms of speech used in the game. Keep in mind they will be similar and not exact as the game uses more archaic forms of English as inspirations for flavor and don't exactly replicate them.

- Shakespeare (which is early Modern English, not Old English!). While Romeo and Juliet is the most well known of his works, I also find it to be much easier to read, so I would suggest Hamlet,Macbeth, Much Ado About Nothing or A Midsummer's Night Dream as the language used in those are a little more convoluted, yet the stories are still more interesting than his historics like the Henrys.
- L'Morte D'Arthur by Thomas Mallory. This is sort of the go to for Arthurian legend as it was the first modern compilation of Arthurian legend and pretty much is what all other takes on Arthurian legend are based off these days.
- If you are truly bold, read The Canterbury Tales by Chaucer. It is written in late Middle English (the precursor to Modern English) and is to most a bunch of indiscernible gibberish. Someone actually posted the beginning of it in this thread on pg. 12.

Anyways, that is some good reading that features some of the older forms of English that would be worth checking out if you have not already.

As far as "pirate speak", yeah you're not going to really find many examples of it in literature, there was a little bit in, sort of in Treasure Island, but " pirate speak" is more an invention of cinema and television. Slightly tangential but you should check out some of the old swashbuckling movies of the silver screen (i. e. Black and white) starring the likes of Douglas Fairbanks, Erroll Flynn and Burt Lancaster. Classic stuff.

P.S. this response is in no way meant to be rude or condescending, as I feel that the material I listed above is something everyone should take a gander at.

[OMEGA_HACK]

Read "The Worm Oroboros" by E.R.Eddison it is a 'modern' high fantasy novel that utilizes that Old English.

[Aeyis]

So, to recap:

You want the EN to stay truer to the "original" JP text.
I pointed out that the "original" JP text is in fact often modified by the "derivative" translations.
You say that this must be mistaken.
I link Ferne discussing how the "original" is often modified by the "derivative" translations.
You assert that the story dialogue's meaning changes radically between languages.

To be clear, I've seen this assertion often. And sometimes it's true. I'm aware that Haurchefant, for one, is characterized much differently in JP than EN. I really don't think it's as much of an issue as you're making it out to be.

You've still not responded to my actual arguments. Only made conclusions (based on what? I cant see).
Is it really that hard to admit you misinterpreted what was said? (trowing you a bone here)
I mean the very dialogue indicates that the level of feedback is low.
Let me ask you then, how often do you read/listen to the japanese dialogue? And the english one?


I read/listen to both languages in each cutscene with voice. While I know my preferences are my opinion, there is a large difference in characterization overall. Because there is a lot of fluff. In my experience rather then sometimes, this applies ''almost all the time'' in regards to the main scenario dialogue.

Examples of change of character would be a character using ''my lady'' and flowery expressions like ''it is a pleasure to make your aquintance!'' when they dont use those words in a different language. Words or expressions like that can give you an entirely different perspective on a character.

It is not simply characters going 180 in personality that qualifies as change of character.


It is my opinion that adding fluff should not be done to any part of the dialogue that related to the MSQ. It is a fact that it is currently heavily done.
I feel it detracts too much from the value of the 'original story/original characters.'


Old english, or Archaic english...if it fits the character, and its the intent of the script writers (whether english or japanese, or german or french):
Gladly. If its entirely different from it, then I feel that would only devalue the product.

You seem to have mistaken me for someone claiming that the texts are perfectly translated and meticulously maintain characterization across all four languages. At no time have I made such an outrageous claim, nor have I said that the idiosyncrasies of the EN text have been added back into JP. My only claim has been that there is no "original" text, because each of the localization teams has a hand in crafting the story.

But that is where you appear to be incorrect. I dont see anything in the interview you linked that states they had a hand in writing the main scenario quests, apart from the bit mentioning Louis. The parts you quote relate to naming monsters etc.
From the interview its strongly implied that at most they would be consulted on the text of certain (deemed) important parts of the MSQ.

Actually, I think Haurchefant was dialed back in the English version this patch, to be more like his Japanese equivalent. At least, I didn't feel a huge difference between his English text and Japanese voice this time. Maybe pointing it out led to some changes? And Urianger didn't spew poetry out of his mouth this patch either.

I enjoyed that scene after the Chrysalis.

Urianger walks in:
-English dialogue: some long poetic verse.
-Japanese dialogue: ''I heard everything you talked about"


Edit: Viridiana
Many of the dialogue differences only appear to be subtle changes of character, but they will add up.
In the Urianger example him entering while saying he overheard all of what you said helped convey that feeling of his hurt better then his use of the poetic verse.
In the Iceheart example, from the English text I felt more empathic towards her intentions because she didnt choose to insult you.

Perhaps its bias on my part, but I feel like the japanese dialogue makes me care more about the characters.


The english dialogue feels more like theather dialogue; as if they are trying their best to act a certain way. The japanese dialogue to me feels more like they the characters simply are who they are. More natural.
Not saying I think all japanese dialogue is stellar tho.

[Viridiana]

Actually, I think Haurchefant was dialed back in the English version this patch, to be more like his Japanese equivalent. At least, I didn't feel a huge difference between his English text and Japanese voice this time. Maybe pointing it out led to some changes? And Urianger didn't spew poetry out of his mouth this patch either.

Yeah, I think in the patches since 2.0 they've been moving the EN of Haurchefant closer to the JP. In base 2.0, though? I hear there's a big disconnect. I can only really speak to differences that have been big enough for people to fuss over them on the forums, because I don't play JP. 2.0 Haurchefant I can concede. 2.55 Midgardsormr I'll argue about. From what people are saying in this thread about 2.0 Yda, I'd have to argue that both languages are aiming to show silliness. I can't speak to any Iceheart differences without more information.

But, yeah, this is where I'm coming from when I say I don't think the admitted changes in localization are a huge deal.

Edit:

Examples of change of character would be a character using ''my lady'' and flowery expressions like ''it is a pleasure to make your aquintance!'' when they dont use those words in a different language. Words or expressions like that can give you an entirely different perspective on a character.

It is not simply characters going 180 in personality that qualifies as change of character.

Honestly, using greetings is probably the worst example you could choose. There's really no good way to translate greetings. And that's true of a lot of common phrases in languages.

Anyway, as far as what constitutes a change of character, I'd say it's anything that *significantly* changes how you see a character. Are Midgardsormr and Urianger different characters in EN than in JP? Yes. Do I think it affects the story at all? Not really.

Does using a different greeting constitute a change of character? Not usually.