In-Game Parser.

[Wildsprite]

Here is the underlying problem, Elitest are using external parsers with simulated damage in them and using them as their basis/ While they cant flat out say how they got their number's, they can still tell people they are bad, leave or kick people from parties, and use gear and even platforms as a basis to judge people.

the biggest issue with external parsers is they use the chat log, which isnt always accurate. sometimes that log will fail to display numbers which are important for real accuracy which is why people are begging for an official one. many argue that these external parsers are fairly accurate but they can only be as accurate as the data they receive. the simulated dats is for the things they cannot get from the log like DoT spells.

I assume this is part of the reason Yoshi-P and crew are hesitant to release the API and we still don't have addons(ofcourse the addon thing could really have something to do with the PS3 memory limitations) because they don't want the makers of these external parsers to be able to get that accurate data.

[Kazumac]

Except that they are. How do I know? Because you noticed them without using a parser.

Know how many times I've had healer friends complain about tanks not using CDs at all? Or how many times as a BRD I looked at the WHM and asked "Why do you need ballad? You haven't had to res anyone." So, yes, your mystical non-transparent examples are still perfectly visible.

While you can get some feel for this without parsers things like an OOM white Mage are easier address with one. Was it over heal or bad spell choice? If it is improper spell choice what was it specifically and what was their spell usage breakdown? Ive seen it used extremely positively this way to help a person who just had no idea what they were doing wrong.

[Lexia]

That should be a picture of Mario saying that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k900hqBNc14

[Lycelle]

So. Up until now I've been against parsers. My argument has been completely wrong. COMPLETELY WRONG!

There is nothing wrong with a parser. It's a glorified calculator that retrieves data from the battle log that is already there. It simplifies it and puts it into a read out that people can understand.

The problem lies with the person who uses it, not the tool itself.

A parser is like a hammer.
Both are tools. - A hammer is used to build. A parser is used to read out numbers.
Both have constructive uses. - A hammer can help build a home. A parser can help improve where a player is weak in their rotation.
Both can cause harm. - A hammer can be used to bludgeon someone to death. A parser can be used to call out weak chains in parties in a malicious manner.

Both are tools, it depends on the wielder of these tools to determine their overall effect and outcome.

[Ehayte]

A parser is like a hammer.
Both are tools. - A hammer is used to build. A parser is used to read out numbers.
Both have constructive uses. - A hammer can help build a home. A parser can help improve where a player is weak in their rotation.
Both can cause harm. - A hammer can be used to bludgeon someone to death. A parser can be used to call out weak chains in parties in a malicious manner.

NO MORE HAMMERS!!!! SHUT DOWN HOME DEPOT!

Also, if my malicious manner you mean in a mean way, then yeah. But calling out a weak chain in a party is VERY useful.

"Everyone gets a trophy" is for Animal Crossing and Farmville. FFXIV can be a very competitive and complex game, we just want the tools to make ourselves better.

[QiLymePye]

See, the problem with the parser is how its implemented. Im againist it based on what people tell me its use is. Its just numbers. But After reading alot of post, SE can add a parser in a sneaky way that not only makes it useful for people that want to improve, but also make it fun for the casuals...so much fun that they don't even know they are using a "parser". I like the idea of training dummies, but it should show more than numbers. I like the idea of like a "ghost" training mode that allows you to try and beat your goal. I suggest something like this:



Make a parser something that an "FC" has to get for their house. ex: striking dummy, or maybe special access to training grounds located at wolfs den....hint hint... That way only dedicated FC's can get parsers and make it like the perks you use for FC like low transportation cost, extra food duration, etc.

Now, after that, incorporate into the game by making it a mini-game for each job, to help players maximize potential while offering good story and maybe rewards for hitting certain mark. The thing is that the Parser shouldn't feel like a parser, but more like part of the game. That way also, if people are struggling, now elites have a way to help players by directing them to those dummies/training grounds..watching them and giving tips. win/win for all. elitist get the parser and a way to help players while helping themselves, players that are casual have something to go to when they decided to work on their skills thats less time consuming and also can have a blueprint of what to do. I've decided that the best thing for this argument is to give ideas how to implement and add it without alienating player base against each other while offering fun and longevity to game. what do you guys think?

[Dwill]

Snip

It has an impact on a lot of encounters, if not most of them. The fine tuning of said rotation (where it becomes a priority system if you want to argue semantics) is where it changes from encounters to encounters. I mean, you seem to either willingly/unwillingly ignore the obvious.

And how much "betterment" is enough to have succeeded? No, "betterment" cannot be the end-goal of adding a parser, as that only has meaning in the transition. While perfection is unreasonable to expect, it is a fully formed idea that has concrete meaning within the context of the game and the raiding player base's expectation therein.

Yes, betterment is a good enough reason and it's an obvious one at that. There are consistent changes in the game, whether it's class balance, mechanics changes, new encounters and the likes and a parser can help a player get better. Denying that is nothing short of blatant ignorance.

What about the other elements of social engineering? Adding a parser is all well and good, but you'll find that it'll have little effect if there's no reason to use it.

Quite the contrary. There are reasons to use them and their effects can easily be seen. The fact that you can't understand/refuse to see that speaks volume about your knowledge of what a parser and the benefits they bring.

[Kazumac]

You see, I think the alienation is already there. I don't think parsers will inherently affect that. It always will exist as people will put stipulations on who they are willing to group with. If you don't fit that condition you are alienated. The issue in its current form is that people only can use arbitrary conditions such as ilvl or achievement record to base this on. With a parser showing real I game performance it wouldn't be as arbitrary. And the people excluded would have more tools to know where they stand and how to improve.

[Krr]

the biggest issue with external parsers is they use the chat log, which isnt always accurate. sometimes that log will fail to display numbers which are important for real accuracy which is why people are begging for an official one. many argue that these external parsers are fairly accurate but they can only be as accurate as the data they receive. the simulated dats is for the things they cannot get from the log like DoT spells..

Both of the parsers read damage numbers directly from client memory now, so hitches caused by the combat log's ambiguity generally don't exist any more. The only situation where a parser could drop numbers is if they somehow aren't posted to the client by the server entirely, a thing likely to break several things in the game if it were allowed to happen on a level that would make parsers inaccurate.

An official one would still be nice for things like dots and damage that somehow isn't sourced to its player, like Shadow Flare.

[QiLymePye]

You see, I think the alienation is already there. I don't think parsers will inherently affect that. It always will exist as people will put stipulations on who they are willing to group with. If you don't fit that condition you are alienated. The issue in its current form is that people only can use arbitrary conditions such as ilvl or achievement record to base this on. With a parser showing real I game performance it wouldn't be as arbitrary. And the people excluded would have more tools to know where they stand and how to improve.

But you have to use your example as a double edge sword. Having a parser like what pc players have will result in even more alienation, lets be honest. Like you said, right now we have it based on ilvl and achievement and even gil amounts. What do you think will actually happen once you start adding another set of numbers to judge people by? What needs to happen is that people that are calling for parser have to put their heads together and think of a way that gets them the parser and doesn't allow the player base to feel discriminated against/ picked on. Because believe it or not, if a majority of the casual players leave this game because of the few elites that are pushing for this, the game will fail. have to cater to the masses.