In-Game Parser.

[Wildsprite]

There are plenty who do want to and want tools to help them. The certain special snowflakes who don't want to improve (which is their problem, not ours) shouldn't deny us these tools so that they can force their mediocrity upon us while they get carried from willingly not pulling their weight.

while I agree with you, that argument is the one that was used to convince them for the striking dummy personal.
you will need better for the official parser argument. because it is not the players who are denying you it is the devs.
you will need to convince them that the good does infact outweigh the bad.

All of this still means the same thing for the pro-parse argument- Having more information does NOT hurt you. It's the information in the wrong hands, that does.

None of this changes the argument against having a parser in-game. The only adverse, or negative thing that it would bring in implementation, is a more widely available tool that people already use. There's no argument against keeping parsers out of game, other than, "I don't want the possibility of criticism". They can't protect people from something as vague as that, by with-holding something like a parser.

despite your argument which I agree with they will still argue that allowing them or making an official one makes it look like they are promoting the bad bahavior of impatient people who shouldnt have these parsers. you know the ones that will use the information to tell people they suck rather than try to give them tips to improve? yeah that type. those are the arguments against the parsers.

I would love to see tools like these in the hands of helpful friendly people. but the impatient jerks that only care about themselves I hate the idea of seeing these kind of tools in their hands

[Nominous]

despite your argument which I agree with they will still argue that allowing them or making an official one makes it look like they are promoting the bad bahavior of impatient people who shouldnt have these parsers. you know the ones that will use the information to tell people they suck rather than try to give them tips to improve? yeah that type. those are the arguments against the parsers.

That's an argument against players who are jerks. This is going to sound terribly American, but this is like saying "Guns kill people", or at least it's a similar argument. Parsers aren't hurting players, the only purpose they serve is as a tool for spitting out information. How that information is used is up to the user. The user's words, criticism, or poor use of that information is what people don't like. I think a lot of people refuse to understand that, and instead, are more content with arguing that the root of the problem is the parser. It's not.

Let me tell you somethin' about some of those crazy people you see on the news. If they intended on murdering someone, and didn't have a gun, they'd probably have done it witha knife. If they don't have a knife, they'll use a rock, if they can't use a rock, they'll use their hands. They're just crazy. People who are jerks are gonna be jerks. No parser? They'll just find more inventive ways to make fun of you, it's not a new concept. People who wanna start stuff will do it in any way they can.

[Wildsprite]

That's an argument against players who are jerks. This is going to sound terribly American, but this is like saying "Guns kill people", or at least it's a similar argument. Parsers aren't hurting players, the only purpose they serve is as a tool for spitting out information. How that information is used is up to the user. The user's words, criticism, or poor use of that information is what people don't like. I think a lot of people refuse to understand that, and instead, are more content with arguing that the root of the problem is the parser. It's not.

oh I agree with you, I do. the logic behind not having an official one is flawed but like it or not it's their game and their rules so we have to convince them.

[Slappah]

oh I agree with you, I do. the logic behind not having an official one is flawed but like it or not it's their game and their rules so we have to convince them.

How's a thread with around 10 thousand views, and over 200 replies, with majority of everyone here agreeing that parsers should be in game for convincing?

[Wildsprite]

How's a thread with around 10 thousand views, and over 200 replies, with majority of everyone here agreeing that parsers should be in game for convincing?

that wont convince them that the good will outweigh the bad, that is what they need to be convinced of.

they already know that quite a lot of people want an official parser. they have gone as far as to say they know people are using them but not to mention that they are using them within the game or in the forums. my guess is their "don't mention the use of them" is in hopes that it will stifle some of the bad behavior

[Nominous]

that wont convince them that the good will outweigh the bad, that is what they need to be convinced of. they already know that quite a lot of people want an official parser.

They already know the good outweighs the bad. If they're worth their salt as developers, they already know how useful that information can be. They have a battle log, so that's (some) proof of that. They (inevitably) see when the world first clear videos blatantly showcase a HUGE parser on the screen.

Having a parser helped people realize that MNK was a high outlier of DPS for some time. It helped people realize that the gap between DRG damage floors and ceilings were insanely large, and that there were buffs that needed to bring them more inline with MNK and NIN. When the community knows more about the game, it helps them make more informed assessments about balance. This goes right back to the developers, and in turn makes the game even better when everyone's happy that their Job performs on viable, or comparable levels to others. You can't just assume that balance is okay. You can't assume that your party is doing fine with damage, and then realize at 13 minutes, 1 minute before enrage, that you could have all been using poison pots and won instead of losing. You can strive, and work at becoming better with a parser. You can only hope that you're doing better without one.

There's so much good that parsers bring to the game, and there's only one negative side effect, that is already happening, and happens on much worse levels. Hunts are toxic as all hell, literally will get you blacklisted, and brings out the WORST in people. Hey, that content is fine, though. PF requirements might as well be a pre-party screening for DPS potential. It systematically allows players to alienate others by perceived damage output (with iLvl requirements), or flat out Job discrimination. The argument they use against parsers in game hardly makes sense, when you consider things like this.

[Nel_Celestine]

How's a thread with around 10 thousand views, and over 200 replies, with majority of everyone here agreeing that parsers should be in game for convincing?

From observation in this topic alone, it's most likely because the other side is tired of hearing the counter argument of "if you don't want parsers you must be trying to hide your sucking" or some variation of that degree. Personally, I'm against anything other than a personal check dummy because regardless of what the pro-use community might think that "the abuse won't get worse" from it. It will.