In-Game Parser.

[Wildsprite]

Have fun doing Odin with people who can't meet the check because they want to "play their way" or people not meeting T8's check without full Echo.

I know pleanty of players who beat the DPS checks on things without parsers. want to know how? simply going in and learning what happens when.
your agrument is invalid.

It's possible to beat content without a parser, but it's putting self-imposed limits on yourself (and others) that don't need to be there. You don't need a speedometer in your car to know you're going too fast, or too slow on the freeway. Enjoy that speeding ticket though, when you thought you were doing okay, but didn't have an exact readout on your speed.

The same exact logic applies to end-game content. You don't need the meter there to have a general idea of if you're doing good or not. But having a parse on hand, while you're fighting, helps you make the necessary adjustments (using poison pots, or saving them if your raid DPS isn't on track) to actually beat a boss, instead of wipe to it. Do you get the point?

this is a game, the devs expect it to be played a certain way.
comparing this to driving a car is not a good argument. it is not legal to drive a car that has no spedometer in it for one thing. try again with something that might actually convince the devs of your argument because I assure you your comparison to a car most definitely will not.

[Dwill]

I know pleanty of players who beat the DPS checks on things without parsers. want to know how? simply going in and learning what happens when.
your agrument is invalid.

Anecdotal evidences are worthless. Your argument is invalid.

Fun game, isn't it ?

It's possible to beat content without a parser, but it's putting self-imposed limits on yourself (and others) that don't need to be there. You don't need a speedometer in your car to know you're going too fast, or too slow on the freeway. Enjoy that speeding ticket though, when you thought you were doing okay, but didn't have an exact readout on your speed.

The same exact logic applies to end-game content. You don't need the meter there to have a general idea of if you're doing good or not. But having a parse on hand, while you're fighting, helps you make the necessary adjustments (using poison pots, or saving them if your raid DPS isn't on track) to actually beat a boss, instead of wipe to it. Do you get the point?

Except some people will never improve because they see big numbers on a chain combo and literally only use that one chain with their buffs having terrible uptime but they still think they do good because big number once every so often.

[Wildsprite]

Anecdotal evidences are worthless. Your argument is invalid.

Fun game, isn't it ?

still nothing to prove that parsers are something the devs should put in.
you can keep going back and forth with examples of bad players all you want except guess what. a lot of them simply don't care to improve and no parser will help that. your examples are no better therefore your argument remains invalid.

my point is I want to see an argument that will make them think about it more than the personal parser on the striking dummies. till you give them a valid reason that will make them think they will stick to their stance.

I should make it clear that I'm not against parsers in game. I would rather not have ones that everyone can see their whole party results but then again if you can change the stance of the devs good on you.

[Dwill]

still nothing to prove that parsers are something the devs should put in.
you can keep going back and forth with examples of bad players all you want except guess what. a lot of them simply don't care to improve and no parser will help that. your examples are no better therefore your argument remains invalid.

my point is I want to see an argument that will make them think about it more than the personal parser on the striking dummies. till you give them a valid reason that will make them think they will stick to their stance.

There are plenty who do want to and want tools to help them. The certain special snowflakes who don't want to improve (which is their problem, not ours) shouldn't deny us these tools so that they can force their mediocrity upon us while they get carried from willingly not pulling their weight.

[Wildsprite]

There are plenty who do want to and want tools to help them. The certain special snowflakes who don't want to improve (which is their problem, not ours) shouldn't deny us these tools so that they can force their mediocrity upon us while they get carried from willingly not pulling their weight.

while I agree with you, that argument is the one that was used to convince them for the striking dummy personal.
you will need better for the official parser argument. because it is not the players who are denying you it is the devs.
you will need to convince them that the good does infact outweigh the bad.

All of this still means the same thing for the pro-parse argument- Having more information does NOT hurt you. It's the information in the wrong hands, that does.

None of this changes the argument against having a parser in-game. The only adverse, or negative thing that it would bring in implementation, is a more widely available tool that people already use. There's no argument against keeping parsers out of game, other than, "I don't want the possibility of criticism". They can't protect people from something as vague as that, by with-holding something like a parser.

despite your argument which I agree with they will still argue that allowing them or making an official one makes it look like they are promoting the bad bahavior of impatient people who shouldnt have these parsers. you know the ones that will use the information to tell people they suck rather than try to give them tips to improve? yeah that type. those are the arguments against the parsers.

I would love to see tools like these in the hands of helpful friendly people. but the impatient jerks that only care about themselves I hate the idea of seeing these kind of tools in their hands

[Nominous]

despite your argument which I agree with they will still argue that allowing them or making an official one makes it look like they are promoting the bad bahavior of impatient people who shouldnt have these parsers. you know the ones that will use the information to tell people they suck rather than try to give them tips to improve? yeah that type. those are the arguments against the parsers.

That's an argument against players who are jerks. This is going to sound terribly American, but this is like saying "Guns kill people", or at least it's a similar argument. Parsers aren't hurting players, the only purpose they serve is as a tool for spitting out information. How that information is used is up to the user. The user's words, criticism, or poor use of that information is what people don't like. I think a lot of people refuse to understand that, and instead, are more content with arguing that the root of the problem is the parser. It's not.

Let me tell you somethin' about some of those crazy people you see on the news. If they intended on murdering someone, and didn't have a gun, they'd probably have done it witha knife. If they don't have a knife, they'll use a rock, if they can't use a rock, they'll use their hands. They're just crazy. People who are jerks are gonna be jerks. No parser? They'll just find more inventive ways to make fun of you, it's not a new concept. People who wanna start stuff will do it in any way they can.

[Wildsprite]

That's an argument against players who are jerks. This is going to sound terribly American, but this is like saying "Guns kill people", or at least it's a similar argument. Parsers aren't hurting players, the only purpose they serve is as a tool for spitting out information. How that information is used is up to the user. The user's words, criticism, or poor use of that information is what people don't like. I think a lot of people refuse to understand that, and instead, are more content with arguing that the root of the problem is the parser. It's not.

oh I agree with you, I do. the logic behind not having an official one is flawed but like it or not it's their game and their rules so we have to convince them.

[Nominous]

this is a game, the devs expect it to be played a certain way.
comparing this to driving a car is not a good argument. it is not legal to drive a car that has no spedometer in it for one thing. try again with something that might actually convince the devs of your argument because I assure you your comparison to a car most definitely will not.

The example holds weight simply because I'm not debating legality, I'm talking about being informed, or lack of information. It's pretty much wording at that point. I could literally just say, "You could do x activity without x meter and you could probably judge the information pretty well. However without x meter you might possibly mess up in x way." It's not exclusive to a speedometer, or parsing, but it means the same thing, regardless of legality. You can do well, but if you don't have a precise readout on what you're doing, you're blindly hoping that you're doing the right thing.

This is important in the end-game environment because there ARE strict checks, and the difference between pushing a phase could just be switching up your rotation, or using a poison pot, or replacing a member. Knowing the actual variable which changed to bring about success is entirely ambiguous without a parser, though. You could push a phase, but not know why. You could be doing what you consider to be your 'best' rotation, but not meet the enrage timer. Could have been another player doing more DPS that pushed your phase. Could have been your poison pot. Could have been a weird amount of crits. If you're not meeting enrage timers, maybe it wasn't you doing poorly. Maybe another member was. Accountability is important, if you intend on being a part of end-game fights. Empathy is too, because your enjoyment is important, but when you're with 7 other people, there's is no less important than yours. Don't waste time. Don't stay uninformed because, "It's worked for me in the past." There's no good reason to be uninformed.

All of this still means the same thing for the pro-parse argument- Having more information does NOT hurt you. It's the information in the wrong hands, that does.

None of this changes the argument against having a parser in-game. The only adverse, or negative thing that it would bring in implementation, is a more widely available tool that people already use. There's no argument against keeping parsers out of game, other than, "I don't want the possibility of criticism". They can't protect people from something as vague as that, by with-holding something like a parser.