In-Game Parser.

[randysquirrel]

IMO we should have a parser, but it should be optional whether others can see your numbers, it is set to "private" so only you can see your own DPS, or turned off entirely.
PF should get the option of excluding people that have their parser set to private/off.

--> PF parties that are looking to improve through measuring their DPS can do so.
--> people that don't like having their DPS visible to all the party see "oh that party is running a parser, I won't join that one, I'll make a different PF party"

Everyone wins.
Except the people who like to sneak into farm parties and get stealth carried.

Genuinely interested if anyone can suggest any reasons why this set-up would not work?

[Atomnium]

IMO we should have a parser, but it should be optional whether others can see your numbers, it is set to "private" so only you can see your own DPS, or turned off entirely.
PF should get the option of excluding people that have their parser set to private/off.

--> PF parties that are looking to improve through measuring their DPS can do so.
--> people that don't like having their DPS visible to all the party see "oh that party is running a parser, I won't join that one, I'll make a different PF party"

Everyone wins.
Except the people who like to sneak into farm parties and get stealth carried.

Genuinely interested if anyone can suggest any reasons why this set-up would not work?

Your idea is brilliant.

[Taika]

IMO we should have a parser, but it should be optional whether others can see your numbers, it is set to "private" so only you can see your own DPS, or turned off entirely.
PF should get the option of excluding people that have their parser set to private/off.

--> PF parties that are looking to improve through measuring their DPS can do so.
--> people that don't like having their DPS visible to all the party see "oh that party is running a parser, I won't join that one, I'll make a different PF party"

Everyone wins.
Except the people who like to sneak into farm parties and get stealth carried.

This is a great idea.

[lyndwyrm]

Genuinely interested if anyone can suggest any reasons why this set-up would not work?

I think the obvious possible flaw is people demanding it be set to public in DF and any/all content they do. The partner with this is some people would assume everyone with it private has lower DPS. Something that may mitigate that a little is to have it set to private every time you log on, so not all people would want to be bothered to change it to public every time they log on whether their DPS is above or below average.

I like this idea though, and the important thing here is that you can see if you are under-performing compared to at least anyone that has it set to public. That way, if you're running anything really, and you see someone with a DPS much higher than yours that isn't much or at all better geared, then you can ask yourself how you can improve or even ask someone else how to improve.

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I just wanted to throw this out there, but if the dev team can overcome whatever issues for add-ons they mentioned in this article, then I think you can be pretty sure some add-on will implement a parser.

[randysquirrel]

That is a fair point, perhaps it could be something that is "locked" in as you enter the dungeon or whatever, ie if you had it set to public/private when you go in, that's what it stays. Then no-one could demand that you suddenly change your settings to be public once you're inside. As seems to be general concensus though, parser isn't generally REQUIRED in anything outside of coil, except for learning/improvement purposes (or in my case general nosiness, if a fellow BLM is putting out materially more DPS than me, I'd want to know how he was doing it! )

[Kyuuen]

That is a fair point, perhaps it could be something that is "locked" in as you enter the dungeon or whatever, ie if you had it set to public/private when you go in, that's what it stays. Then no-one could demand that you suddenly change your settings to be public once you're inside. As seems to be general concensus though, parser isn't generally REQUIRED in anything outside of coil, except for learning/improvement purposes (or in my case general nosiness, if a fellow BLM is putting out materially more DPS than me, I'd want to know how he was doing it! )

As someone who's been staunchly against the addition of an in-game parser, the quickest fix to your suggestion would be simply to not allow the use of parsers within any type of DF. If one wants to improve their performance through the use of a parser then the last place you'd expect reliable data would be DF. As you already said it, allow it in custom made parties and PF where like minded individuals can group and help each other out. Expecting the sort of min/max perfomance out of DF is nearly unrealistic for a number of reasons besides just player skill/knowledge.

[randysquirrel]

As someone who's been staunchly against the addition of an in-game parser, the quickest fix to your suggestion would be simply to not allow the use of parsers within any type of DF. If one wants to improve their performance through the use of a parser then the last place you'd expect reliable data would be DF. As you already said it, allow it in custom made parties and PF where like minded individuals can group and help each other out. Expecting the sort of min/max perfomance out of DF is nearly unrealistic for a number of reasons besides just player skill/knowledge.

Completely agree it isn't needed in a DFed dungeon, tho I don't see the harm in having it available? If you didn't want others to see your numbers you would have the option of doing exactly that. I quite often do the roulettes with my buddies, and tbh they are all so face-roll easy, the only (fun) challenge amongst us is seeing who can win the dps race

[Felessan]

And I can imagine the amount of rage if the tanks couldn't hold aggro or if the healers let everyone die.
Ohai thar double standard!

You sound like tanks and heals are transparent and dps are not - so dps parsers should be implemented. But it's a lie - all classes have their transparent part, like holding agro, minimal healing for group survival and handling mechanics/killing adds, and non-transparent part like damage mitigation/received damage for tanks, HPS and overheal numbers for healers and actual dps number for dps classes.
I saw as many tank that sucks at proper damage mitigation (some of them even forget completely about their defensive cooldowns) and healers that are very bad at conserving mana and those overheal% are abyssal as possible as crappy dps, and those numbers are not visible anywhere.

I'm refuting that a "basic job rotation" exists in a meaningful sense at endgame, which when you look objectively at the rules of each fight is absolutely true, there isn't one because the mechanics of the fight prevent that.

If you don't understand basic rotation - you'll perform awfull regardless of encounter. Because basic rotation is a first step, further you'll need to know how to restart/continue it after breaks and how to tailor it to specific encounter, but basis stays the same.

The endstate behind the parser is being able to better oneself as a player, not to attain perfection. As such, this answer your second question. People should carry their own weight, not drag down a group and a parser helps tremendously in that department.

But what will happen when some people thinks that their numbers are "ok" as they are not so much dedicated and put limited effort to their improvement and other think that those same numbers are not "ok" because "hardcore guys can pull more"?
This is a main reason for conflict when parser number are clearly visible.
90% of content is casual and thus for people who plays for fun and not for achievement. And this content does not require stellar performance, even mediocre-bad performance are still enough to pass everything but coil and some extremes. People in this content should not be put into the situation when they are actively shun for their performance in content that does not require it, just because someone can do it better. It' bad to force one's playstyle to other people.

[Viridiana]

I saw as many tank that sucks at proper damage mitigation (some of them even forget completely about their defensive cooldowns) and healers that are very bad at conserving mana and those overheal% are abyssal as possible as crappy dps, and those numbers are not visible anywhere.

Except that they are. How do I know? Because you noticed them without using a parser.

Know how many times I've had healer friends complain about tanks not using CDs at all? Or how many times as a BRD I looked at the WHM and asked "Why do you need ballad? You haven't had to res anyone." So, yes, your mystical non-transparent examples are still perfectly visible.

[Kyuuen]

Completely agree it isn't needed in a DFed dungeon, tho I don't see the harm in having it available? If you didn't want others to see your numbers you would have the option of doing exactly that. I quite often do the roulettes with my buddies, and tbh they are all so face-roll easy, the only (fun) challenge amongst us is seeing who can win the dps race

My concern would mostly fall on the people that would then start harassing people about what numbers they pulled, even if it's set to private/opt-in/out.