In-Game Parser.

[Zeful]

Maybe it's because I take the stance that I find people who I like to game with, I don't have this idea that I'm forced to play with people who will treat me like crap.

So do the casual players. This is not an argument of efficiency or playstyle or any of that shit. It's an argument of motivation. Players that are against parsers see the attitude of people like this:

Yes, let's embrace mediocrity. Excellence is a sin!

As shitty, and thus see the proliferation of parsers in general as the game actively forcing them to play with people who will treat them like crap. This is the huge fucking disconnect that the raid-lifestyle players do not fucking get (which I can only assume is, generously, because they are too stupid to get it) and continue acting high and mighty about it as if numbers are somehow sacred.

Giving players tools to encourage excellence only work when a player is given time to use them. Given the current attitude of the raiding player-base like Ellatrix, a parser is worthless, because they won't give that time.

[Ellatrix]

-

Tell me, have you actually tried to help someone when they are playing really, really poorly? Like killing the party with mechanics horribly? When they insist they are doing fine? They will tell you to gtfo. Having numbers to bash them over the head with will help, because otherwise they don't listen at all, and the only recourse is to vote kick them in hopes of getting someone who will stop failing party wipe mechanics (perhaps by dying right at the start, can't get expectations too high!). Figuring out basic job rotation to deal damage is something you do before you queue up or join PF. Learning the fight mechanics is something you do before you queue up or join PF.

It's the players who need help the most that are in their little bubble of 'im doing fine stop telling me how to play' that need that bubble popped when they choose to step into a raid/trial encounter.

Also, as an aisde, it's that "raiding player-base like Ellatrix" that provides the guide vids to fully explain and get YOU through a fight, and also that figures out optimal damage rotation and constantly provides useful help for those who ask on forums.

[Zeful]

words

Cute strawman. That addresses all of nothing I've said though, but that's to be expected. You aren't interested in having other players climb to get to your level, you just said so yourself: "Figuring out basic job rotation to deal damage is something you do before you queue up or join PF. Learning the fight mechanics is something you do before you queue up or join PF." Your argument is so short sighted and filled with logical holes that we should still be waiting on World First clears of the story dungeons if reality was actually reflective of your beliefs. After all, someone has to go into a fight perfectly blind.

Let's look at this from a purely objective perspective. A player does not get his full suite of abilities until level 50, and has to make due trying to optimize a slowly growing stable of abilities for literally most of their formative experience. This means that a parser only has value in the post game, as before then the lack of abilities makes optimizing DPS a simple math problem. Except endgame dungeons get complex quickly compared to what comes before in massive contrast. Especially when in consideration to the ever changing stable of people you play with. When you actually think about how the tempo of each fight plays out, you quickly realize that there is no "basic rotation". The "default Ninja opener" for example is worthless against Garuda and Titan EX because they have such an early phase transition that will push you out of it. With this in mind our objective perspective shows us that there isn't a "basic" rotation, there is a heuristic logic to an ability's timing. This means that a parser is logically even more necessary to optimizing the fight, because the changing nature of the fight and the timing of when bosses become immune to DoTs or damage alters the "weights" of each ability for that fight.

But looking at your statement, this is impossible. Experimentation is verboten, the "rotation" is sacrosanct. "Figuring out basic job rotation to deal damage is something you do before you queue up or join PF." Ergo, it doesn't matter if a parser exists or not, it's effect in the face of this statement is the same either way; nothing.

[Dwill]

Snip

Except what he's asking is the basic job rotation, not perfect adaptation to every possible scenario. For example, the amount of Dragoon that let Heavy Trust falls is really high and the amount of Summoners who start their DoT opener via Bio therefore locking themselves in the GCD is just as bad. This is basic stuff that doesn't even take 30 minutes to learn on a dummy after you hit 50 and yet, these type of players are widespread and are anchors to group content and I don't about you but I hate having to carry anchors.

[Zeful]

snip

I'm refuting that a "basic job rotation" exists in a meaningful sense at endgame, which when you look objectively at the rules of each fight is absolutely true, there isn't one because the mechanics of the fight prevent that. Are players that perform poorly at their class' mechanics (loosing buffs, not keeping dots up, poor management of OGCD abilities) going to have that performance mirrored overall? Yes, and I'm not refuting that. But how does that logically transform a heuristic flowchart into a rotation?

More importantly, isn't "perfect adaptation to every possible scenario" the desired endstate behind adding a parser? To make those anchors you carry around able to carry their own weight?

[Dwill]

I'm refuting that a "basic job rotation" exists in a meaningful sense at endgame, which when you look objectively at the rules of each fight is absolutely true, there isn't one because the mechanics of the fight prevent that. Are players that perform poorly at their class' mechanics (loosing buffs, not keeping dots up, poor management of OGCD abilities) going to have that performance mirrored overall? Yes, and I'm not refuting that. But how does that logically transform a heuristic flowchart into a rotation?

We can argue semantics if you want but for every DPS class out there, there exists a rotation. Said rotation though can barely ever be followed as you mentioned due to fight mechanics which means that now once your opener's done, the priority system kicks in. What people are asking is for people to know what said rotation is so that they can better adapt in actual, non-dummy DPS scenarios and then can properly manage their class's priority system. If people can't be bothered to learn that, then they probably can't be bothered to learn a fight's mechanic which just creates a bad domino effect.

More importantly, isn't "perfect adaptation to every possible scenario" the desired endstate behind adding a parser? To make those anchors you carry around able to carry their own weight?

The endstate behind the parser is being able to better oneself as a player, not to attain perfection. As such, this answer your second question. People should carry their own weight, not drag down a group and a parser helps tremendously in that department.

[Zeful]

We can argue semantics if you want but for every DPS class out there, there exists a rotation. Said rotation though can barely ever be followed as you mentioned due to fight mechanics which means that now once your opener's done, the priority system kicks in. What people are asking is for people to know what said rotation is so that they can better adapt in actual, non-dummy DPS scenarios and then can properly manage their class's priority system. If people can't be bothered to learn that, then they probably can't be bothered to learn a fight's mechanic which just creates a bad domino effect.

This paragraph quite clearly shows why implementing a parser is not worth Yoshi's time. The rotation exists, but it's existence has no real impact on endgame fights due to mechanics; which makes the argument that a player must learn it blindly (and make no bones about it that's exactly what you are advocating, as your reasoning for learning it can be summed up as "for it's own sake") actively harmful to a player's performance because there's no context as to why. Even in your post you fail to point out why the concept of the rotation even exists within the context of the fight.

It's easy though. The rotation shows how a Job's abilities synergize, and how each one affects the other positively to use the whole potential the class provides. It's a concrete example of the value of each move.

The endstate behind the parser is being able to better oneself as a player, not to attain perfection. As such, this answer your second question. People should carry their own weight, not drag down a group and a parser helps tremendously in that department.

And how much "betterment" is enough to have succeeded? No, "betterment" cannot be the end-goal of adding a parser, as that only has meaning in the transition. While perfection is unreasonable to expect, it is a fully formed idea that has concrete meaning within the context of the game and the raiding player base's expectation therein.

What about the other elements of social engineering? Adding a parser is all well and good, but you'll find that it'll have little effect if there's no reason to use it. So why not add reward mechanisms for actual excellence. Take the upgrade items like Oil of Time/Carboncoat out of the loot tables for all new content and only reward them to players that achieve performance milestones. There's now a connection between your performance and your progression.