In-Game Parser.

[Nominous]

SE knows the problems it causes. It has its pros and cons but they decided against it.

There's many pros. There's one, singular con. The one con is a fear that is inappropriately pinned on the parser itself, and not the few idiots who are hopelessly toxic in the first place, even if you removed parsing from the equation. Widespread availability doesn't somehow make people more toxic. A person who was harassing you before, will just have new reasons to harass you. Does it change how you feel about them? No. You think they're a jerk regardless. If they didn't have a parser, would they still harass you? They'd find a reason in anything if it meant being annoying.

[Moqi]

Widespread availability doesn't somehow make people more toxic.

That's exactly what happened with hunts when Coil drops were made available with logs - name calling, insult, death threats in shouts. It happened back when they were introduced and it happened again now with Carbontwine and Carboncoat. Toxicity spreads - you can bet that if people start requiring minimun DPS on PF and threat to pars them, it will be picked up by people who would have never though of it othwerise.

There are DPS checks in the game, if you fail them you wipe: that's your clue you need to improve, you don't really need anything else. Go back to the training dummy or talk to your party and come up with a new strategy/rotation, then give it another go and see if this time you can pass. Numbers aren't needed at all - even if there's only one person underperforming, it's still noticeable without knowing exactly how much less DPS he was doing compared to everyone else.

[Nominous]

That's exactly what happened with hunts when Coil drops were made available with logs - name calling, insult, death threats in shouts. It happened back when they were introduced and it happened again now with Carbontwine and Carboncoat. Toxicity spreads - you can bet that if people start requiring minimun DPS on PF and threat to pars them, it will be picked up by people who would have never though of it othwerise.

There are DPS checks in the game, if you fail them you wipe: that's your clue you need to improve, you don't really need anything else. Go back to the training dummy or talk to your party and come up with a new strategy/rotation, then give it another go and see if this time you can pass. Numbers aren't needed at all - even if there's only one person underperforming, it's still noticeable without knowing exactly how much less DPS he was doing compared to everyone else.

I get the comparison. The idea is the same, but the situations are different. Introducing a parser into the game doesn't change the outcome largely, since a large part of the population either A) Has them, or B) Asks their friends to use it if they don't. If someone doesn't know about parsing, and they figure out about it, they likely will fall into one of those two categories. People who don't fall into those categories refuse to acknowledge it's benefits, don't want criticism (which is foolish, considering you can't stop that, even by lack of having a parser), aren't concerned with being better (and by that logic, should understand that they don't have to deal with end-game / the players, or that conversely, the end-game players don't have to deal with them), or a mixture of those. There's no reason to refute having more knowledge. I've said it before, it's not life-threatening for passing or failing content, but you're just limiting yourself needlessly by not having it, and possibly wasting other people's time.

Hunts are different in that it's simply crowded content. People are angry because there's something that's valuable, that's at their fingertips, and they feel denied the right to have that by other players. It brings out the toxicity that's already present, to an open field, where you can witch-hunt and pin blame on others to your hearts content.

Let me pose this question, too.

With parsers being so readily available to the PC audience, and being a huge presence in the game already, what's stopping people from doing that right now? Why haven't we seen these fears of yours come to fruition for upwards of a year and a half of 2.0? PF, in and of itself, is the idea of denying players access to your party based on discrimination. So why, with a system that so readily allows that, have we not seen people requiring a specific parse to show them to join? Hmm?

[Moqi]

With parsers being so readily available to the PC audience, and being a huge presence in the game already, what's stopping people from doing that right now? Why haven't we seen these fears of yours come to fruition for upwards of a year and a half of 2.0? PF, in and of itself, is the idea of denying players access to your party based on discrimination. So why, with a system that so readily allows that, have we not seen people requiring a specific parse to show them to join? Hmm?

They'd have to admit to using one, which is not allowed. At most you can say "no bad players", which is still rude, but not as discriminatory, since it's highly subjective.

My static uses parsers, I know it can have benefits if used the right way. Personally, I've had my healing parsed once when I joined, got told it was roughly the same as the other healer and from then on I've tuned out of every discussion regarding numbers because I couldn't care less - I can still tell who the top DPS in my static is without having a clue of what number he's pulling. When I want to try new things to conserve MP/generate less aggro, I just talk to my co-healer and tank(s) first and if it's feesable we try it out and I watch if it's too straining on either of them, no need for numbers, I can notice if they're using more cooldowns than usual and that's all I need to know I'm not healing enough.

I think the flaw in your reasoning is that you expect parsing to stay limited to end game raids and between people who more or less use parsers already (in the "good" way), like it is now, when it won't likely be the case. Bad attitudes spread more easily than good ones. I'm sure we'll be seeing absurd dps requirements on all kinds of things (we already have PF with absurd min ilvl) and in the end, the toxic envoirment and attitudes it will create will outweight the good benefits it can have on the people who just want to self improve.

Look at speedrunning, solo healing or solo tanking - there's a pattern already of the community taking neutral concept and twisting them to shun players and discriminate. This would only make matters worse.

[Wizarus]

End-game raiding is one thing, let the 5%-10% do what they want. The main problem here is any content that can be Duty Finder'd, that's where the abuse is going to come from. If there is even the possibility of parsers being available when using DF, I will be 100% against it.

[Slappah]

End-game raiding is one thing, let the 5%-10% do what they want. The main problem here is any content that can be Duty Finder'd, that's where the abuse is going to come from. If there is even the possibility of parsers being available when using DF, I will be 100% against it.

Parsers are 100% available in duty finder and has been since launch so GG

[Cutie_McSnuggles]

I guess I should chime in and say I'm totally for having an official parser in game. One of the reasons I don't DPS often is because I have no way of knowing how good I'm really doing. Even when tanking I feel like I should be able to check how much I'm contributing. I mean it's easy to tell if I'm holding hate but beyond that how can I improve myself? So I normally just stick to healing, then it's easy to tell how well I'm doing as it doesn't matter how much DPS I'm adding because I don't really spend that much time doing DPS.

[Clarkamite]

Remember when I said the people against parsers would completely skip over the idea that SE could add in one in-game that only you could see and it only showed your numbers? Yeah. Still holding true. I completely understand the arguments that say it will only be used to harass people if one is created that is just like the ones pc players have. So find a middle ground. Make on that only shows your numbers and is not shareable unless you allow it to be or hell even make it not shareable at all. How can that be used to harass people? Especially if it can't be shared at all?

[HeroSamson]

Remember when I said the people against parsers would completely skip over the idea that SE could add in one in-game that only you could see and it only showed your numbers? Yeah. Still holding true. I completely understand the arguments that say it will only be used to harass people if one is created that is just like the ones pc players have. So find a middle ground. Make on that only shows your numbers and is not shareable unless you allow it to be or hell even make it not shareable at all. How can that be used to harass people? Especially if it can't be shared at all?

A parser to only see my own output and not others would be okay with me.

Can't abuse that.

[Slappah]

Yoshi-P can't protect the community from everything, and in this case it's doing more harm than good.