In-Game Parser.

[Havenchild]

snip

You have come full circle to the many benefits of having a parser. This is actually what it tends to be used for more often contrary to popular belief. Not only that, its VERY easy to single out WHERE players lose DPS like on what phase, and having this information allows players to adjust rotations or cooldown usage in prior phases.

Many who are against parsers, so far I have noticed in this thread, do not actually raid on current content (go figure). Why is this relevant though?

I feel there is a lack of understanding of what a DPS check really is to these people. None of the current EX Primals(Odin included) are valuable in this DPS environment as most that have enrage timers, are easily downed before them unless massive amounts of death come into play. Then you see something like Odin which seems different from most fights, which seems intense (even though his "DPS" check really occurs at the 15% rush, easily completed by holding buffs till then.)

Now imagine if you had a DPS check for the entire encounter that was actually rather strict, then mini DPS checks in-between certain phases (adds for example having to die before the next phase/ or usage of certain skill). Parsers help these moments greatly by seeing this information. We don't necessarily have the time to sift through everything in battle log, pull out a calculator, take some averages and see what were doing, granted most people I've raided with as I'm sure others still actually check battle log when "something" did a lot of damage to them to figure out what it was.

Yes it is possible that all of your DPS know their classes and how to play them very well and still fail a DPS check during a particular add phase mid encounter simply because they haven't adjusted their overall rotation to the encounter to better arm themselves for that particular phase. You may then say, "yeah but its obvious if you need more damage on add phase, save cooldowns for the add phase!!! Eureka!", yeah but are you forgetting the overall enrage thats still strict for the entire encounter? I may save buffs in the previous phase to go ham on the adds phase but is that helping us beat the overall enrage encounter? What if im sacrificing too much in the beginning, to burn down those adds and thus my beginning DPS is not very high? This is where parsers come in to better illuminate the entire picture. It can with frequency show you how much sacrifice is enough to do both.

[Massterchef]

stuff

Kudos, you've finally seen the light.

[Faelandaea]

The devs don't have to spend any time on making an in-house parser. They're already making the addon API public in Heavensward, so as long as players have access to the combat log then you'll start seeing player made parsers being made and thrown up.

So . . . Wait . . . If that's been confirmed then what's the point of this thread? Debate or not the question was if we'll have an in game solution for parsing. It seems there's the answer right there.

[Gardes]

So . . . Wait . . . If that's been confirmed then what's the point of this thread? Debate or not the question was if we'll have an in game solution for parsing. It seems there's the answer right there.

Addons have been promised before ARR launched. IIRC it was promised to be launched at 2.1 or something like that. Then it just keeps getting delayed and delayed until most people just forget and they stopped giving dates. Every single time they mention they're pretty much done and just tweaking and testing. Tweaking what, I wonder? I can't help but wonder that they're trying their hardest to neuter their add-on capability so that people cant make parsers out of it because yoship is that scared of parsers.

[HeroSamson]

Tell me what is a parser going to do for you?
You going to tell a person what to do, how to do their job and if they tell you no and stop telling them how to play and you begin to down play them and decide to kick.

Because that will happen and of course they'll report and GM for it and what then you'll get GM jailed and warned not to do it again.
But of course you will and try to be nicer about it, though you'll end up bumping into someone who doesn't like parsers and knows where this is heading and GM's you and you get temp banned for a while.

Doesn't seem worth it to me.

I know I wouldn't like to hear people breathing down my neck about my damage or how I play that gets on my nerves and really people should shut their mouth and play their own damn game.
You do not pay anyones bill to make that choice for them.

So like I said whats the parser going to do for you, you see your own damage but we all know you'll use it on others and of course your big mouth would get you in trouble in the end.

I know you'll say something like so we can lower dps to fit the right monster so we don't push it to special attack faster or stuff like that but I ran into a few people with parsers and boy did they try to blast people calling everyone noobs and threaten to kick people and even new players talking crap ran into a total of 30 people since ive been playing all elites.

its probably why he says no.

[Gardes]

Tell me what is a parser going to do for you?
You going to tell a person what to do, how to do their job and if they tell you no and stop telling them how to play and you begin to down play them and decide to kick.

I know I wouldn't like to hear people breathing down my neck about my damage or how I play that gets on my nerves and really people should shut their mouth and play their own damn game.
You do not pay anyones bill to make that choice for them.

So what would you do then? If the position is reversed? I come into your party as a class that you know very well and we're trying to beat a hard fight and you literally see me doing the stupidest thing I can do as that class (due to ignorance). We fail over and over and the reason is pretty much me not helping the team break through a phase fast enough. Through several attempts and watching how I play, you became convinced that I am THE reason the group is failing. What are you gonna do about it?

Going by what you (and other people) fear of what people can do with a parser, you are NOT allowed to point me out as the weakest link in the party and then kick me out of the party. You are NOT allowed to silently kick me out of the party either. Anything that smells like 'elitist' behavior is not allowed. Going by what you said you hate, you are NOT allowed to tell me how to play either. Not even in a politely advising manner. The way I play is the playstyle I learned by myself and enjoy the most.

Now, I would like to point out that silently disbanding the party or making up a false excuse to disband the party is also hypocritical to the spirit of the point you (and anti parser people in general) are trying to make. It also allows me (we're still talking about the example) to continue playing in ignorance and make more parties fail over and over. I will not stop because no one will stop me and make a real (insert class) out of me, because they are not allowed to.

By the way, we're still in the same trial. You still have to finish this trial with my incompetent self, you know? NOW CARRY ME!

Also, after we timed out, you have to make a new party finder for the same trial with the requirements and tell me why I'm not allowed in your party anymore. Same rules apply.

[HeroSamson]

So what would you do then?[/HB]

Nothing, I don't need programs to make myself better or my team in order to win a fight.

I just don't understand what you need parser for other than attacking others because they slow you down.

[Taika]

Nothing, I don't need programs to make myself better or my team in order to win a fight.

I just don't understand what you need parser for other than attacking others because they slow you down.

You do not now how good you're doing without a parser, DPS wise. Mechanically, you do know, because you know how you move and if you're evading stuff or not. DPS wise, all you know is if you seem to be following the optimal rotation (based on what someone else has parsed) and that things are or aren't dying fast enough with your group. But you can't know if you're doing good damage for your item level. And if your group fails to pass DPS check, you don't know if it's you who has to do better or someone else.

[HeroSamson]

snip

Okay you guys want a parser so bad how about this.

Then you should ask SE to make a Duty finder type For all the dungeon, coil and what not what ever you choose and have them add a parser only to that.
Make it a free zone to do the following.

1.Kick players for any reasons at all.
2. you cant get in trouble for it.

I am positive nobody would join that duty it would be empty a lot, I know it would be fun at first just to see how much output you do at first until people start getting out of hand.

The only ones who would use it are the ones asking for parsers but then again wolves tend to turn on each other when something goes wrong in the pack, some will use it for good, some will use it for bad.

[Lycelle]

Nothing, I don't need programs to make myself better or my team in order to win a fight.

I just don't understand what you need parser for other than attacking others because they slow you down.

You re confusing the two definitions here. A parser is just a tool. You cannot blame the tool for someone's behavior. You don't need a parser to be an asshole.

They'd have to admit to using one, which is not allowed. At most you can say "no bad players", which is still rude, but not as discriminatory, since it's highly subjective.

My static uses parsers, I know it can have benefits if used the right way. Personally, I've had my healing parsed once when I joined, got told it was roughly the same as the other healer and from then on I've tuned out of every discussion regarding numbers because I couldn't care less - I can still tell who the top DPS in my static is without having a clue of what number he's pulling. When I want to try new things to conserve MP/generate less aggro, I just talk to my co-healer and tank(s) first and if it's feesable we try it out and I watch if it's too straining on either of them, no need for numbers, I can notice if they're using more cooldowns than usual and that's all I need to know I'm not healing enough.

I think the flaw in your reasoning is that you expect parsing to stay limited to end game raids and between people who more or less use parsers already (in the "good" way), like it is now, when it won't likely be the case. Bad attitudes spread more easily than good ones. I'm sure we'll be seeing absurd dps requirements on all kinds of things (we already have PF with absurd min ilvl) and in the end, the toxic envoirment and attitudes it will create will outweight the good benefits it can have on the people who just want to self improve.

Look at speedrunning, solo healing or solo tanking - there's a pattern already of the community taking neutral concept and twisting them to shun players and discriminate. This would only make matters worse.

How is a glorified calculator to blame for people's natural elitist attitudes towards other players? It's not discrimination in the slightest. You can't blame players for the way the game was set up to be. To sit here and say that iLevel requirements, speedrunning, solo tanking is discrimination is like giving Yoshi-P's development team the middle finger for making PF. It's there to be used, you make the choice whether or not to use it. If you don't like the way someone make's their party, then by all means make one better. Solo Healing/Tanking is merely an ideal for players who feel comfortable enough in their own skin to take up the task of doing so. It gives players a challenge but also an easier way to get through content by offering up spots to extra DPS. So really it's people trying to help each other out instead of discrimination as you claim. You can't have your cake and eat it too.