That's... actually a kind of big translation difference. [2.5 spoilers]

[Risvertasashi]

I've been only vaguely aware of people chattering about the differences in Midgardsormr's speech, but today I came across a thread to see it (well, read it) first hand.

I saw Fernehalwe's post too, of course.

Sure, sure, say the dragons and their language has quite a tendency to be vague thanks to their history and culture, and yet...

I can't help but notice the Japanese version nonetheless has quite a bit more content. Namely two things:

1. It's unambiguous that Midgardsormr is trying to help you, in his own way.
2. The dragons aren't beings of pure, unforgiving vengeance; they're going to attack Ishgard because of what they're doing/will do, not just what they did in the past.

It's not just a verbosity thing. To me #2 is a huge difference of characterization, the sort of thing that would determine who's side I was on (if we had a choice anyway).

This isn't the first time this has happened either. Anyone remember how much more informative the Hunts hints were in the Japanese version?

So... what gives?

[Askio]

like many games, the literal translation from Japanese to English (languages in general though) is not always accurate or as forthcoming. Perhaps it may seem more straightforward with someone translating the japanese version for us, but it was just as subtle in theirs. Personally, I always thought Ishgard was a pretty messed up place. Both sides so brutally willing to shed blood. A never ending cycle.
But other than the translation issues, maybe the creators though Western audiences would like it this way.

[axemtitanium]

It was an authorial decision to make Midgardsormr's relationship with the player more ambiguous in the English version, perhaps to set up a more dramatic reveal later. The EN team is no less a part of the lore/story team than any other language, including Japanese. The story in this game is a collaborative effort and the EN team decided to characterize EN Midgardsormr in this way, making him more mysterious, terse, and ambiguously adversarial than his JP characterization. You are free to dislike that authorial choice, but it's no less "correct" than the Japanese version because all people involved are full-fledged "authors" of the work.

[Dyvid]

It was an authorial decision to make Midgardsormr's relationship with the player more ambiguous in the English version, perhaps to set up a more dramatic reveal later. The EN team is no less a part of the lore/story team than any other language, including Japanese. The story in this game is a collaborative effort and the EN team decided to characterize EN Midgardsormr in this way, making him more mysterious, terse, and ambiguously adversarial than his JP characterization. You are free to dislike that authorial choice, but it's no less "correct" than the Japanese version because all people involved are full-fledged "authors" of the work.

Pretty much this. The EN and JP lore master work side by side so it's not the simple read, translate, paste. Its a direct decision to change the wording to make it more appealing to the audience and the general tone of the context is true in both versions. The motivation the same in both version, to test the player in the upcoming conflict.

[Alice_89th]

I have yet to start on the 2.5 scenario so I can't really say anything on this, but do you happen to have (links too) the text in both languages?


PS: woudn't the Localization subforum have been a better place for this thread?

[Risvertasashi]

I have yet to start on the 2.5 scenario so I can't really say anything on this, but do you happen to have (links too) the text in both languages?


PS: woudn't the Localization subforum have been a better place for this thread?

The link to text of both versions is in my original post. And I did consider that forum, but... in a way, this isn't a localization issue. Not precisely.

I don't have a problem with them deciding to stylize/flavor the translation. Like I said, I did read Fernehalwes's post.

[Alice_89th]

The link to text of both versions is in my original post. And I did consider that forum, but... in a way, this isn't a localization issue. Not precisely.

I don't have a problem with them deciding to stylize/flavor the translation. Like I said, I did read Fernehalwes's post.

Ah, sorry I missed the links.
It sounds exactly like a localization issue to me, though. It is about the difference between the text in both versions, that sounds a lot more to localization than lore to me. Issue doesn't exactly have to mean problem, mind you. But now that the thread is posted here it doesn't really matter.

But the way I see it, it is still unambiguous that Middy want to help you in the English version, just with a lot less words. In the English version he outright states that he will not harm you, while the Japanese only states that he promised Hydaelyn not to kill you... if anything the English one is a bit more precise here (not killing someone doesn't mean you don't harm them). Neither version outright states that he will help you, while both versions state that he will "watch over you".

The second point you state is valid, the English version does not state that Ishgard is still doing something right now. (Though perhaps you could argue the war is an ongoing thing. It started way back when and Ishgard is still fighting, and over time they may have forgotten the origins of the war). This really is a difference. Still, with the little info we have I find it hard to say what it would do to my character's reaction to this. I personally started doubting Ishgard ever since I met Iceheart and heard her speak Hydaelyns words. To me this meeting with Middy, whichever language you pick, only confirms that doubt.

There is no need to withdraw your opinion. You felt there was a large difference between the two languages, and there is nothing wrong with feeling that way. Everyone has different preferences for translation.

[Cynthis]

But the way I see it, it is still unambiguous that Middy want to help you in the English version, just with a lot less words. In the English version he outright states that he will not harm you, while the Japanese only states that he promised Hydaelyn not to kill you... if anything the English one is a bit more precise here (not killing someone doesn't mean you don't harm them). Neither version outright states that he will help you, while both versions state that he will "watch over you".

I am puzzled how several people in this thread thinks the big dragon wants to help us. I certainly hope there is an explanation coming but removing the blessing of light, which apparently had been keeping the Ascians away, and letting them come after us and killing my favorite scion... that kind of "help" I could have done without. In my mind, not killing us is not equal to helping us...

[Alenore]

But the way I see it, it is still unambiguous that Middy want to help you in the English version, just with a lot less words. In the English version he outright states that he will not harm you, while the Japanese only states that he promised Hydaelyn not to kill you... if anything the English one is a bit more precise here (not killing someone doesn't mean you don't harm them). Neither version outright states that he will help you, while both versions state that he will "watch over you".

Midgardsormr was about to kill us, but he couldn't because we were not 'gifted' but 'chosen'. Most likely similarly to what happens in World of Darkness at the end, with Cloud of Darkness unable to kill a certain someone, especially considering that there was a Covenant between CoD and Xande, and there's another between Midgardsormr and Hydaelyn, from his dialogue.

Right after telling he's about to kill you, and seeing his spell fail :

Hmph. Trichery is thy shield. This frail, ignoble creature is not gifted, but chosen...
Hearken to me, Hydaelyn! I remember...and I consent.
Fear not, mortal... O shall not harm thee...

*laser of doom + cutscene with the 6 crystals fading happens*

Heh heh heh. Mayhap thou thinkest me an oathbreaker?
Thou art mistaken. If thou comest to harm, it shall be by another's hand, not mine.
I did but strip thee of thy mistress's feeble blessing.
Thou didst profit much by Her grace, but no more.

To me, it clearly means "I can't actually kill you, but I can strip you from your protection so someone will eventually do the job for me".

[Velox]

To me, it clearly means "I can't actually kill you, but I can strip you from your protection so someone will eventually do the job for me".

"Hearken to me, Hydaelyn! I remember...and I consent."


The key word here is "consent." Basically, Midgardsormr got permission from Hydaelyn to remove the shield she put up. Why? If Hydaelyn granted Midgardsormr that power and authority then she must have had a reason. Hydaelyn knew her power was waning. She gave her chosen one a way to stave off the Ascian threat because YOU (the adventurer) were new and inexperienced, having only recently been awoken. Hydaelyn herself knew that you would be fated to cross paths with Midgardsormr. She knew that, by that time, you should learn to rely on your own power rather than the power she lent to you. However, although we don't know her exact fate as of yet, it's obvious she knew she would not be able to remove it herself (perhaps many eons ago she foresaw her own demise and entrusted Midgardsormr to fulfill her final wishes). This is part of the reason why Midgardsormr won't kill you. Once you beat his spirit, he realizes that YOU were the one Hydaelyn prophesied about all those years ago. He knew it was time to fulfill the promise/charge he was given and strip the Blessing of Light from you. He elects to watch over you (in the small form) to guide your path. He blatantly tells you his children heard the call and will attack, which he is admitting he cannot stop (and probably wouldn't if he could, he is still a dragon and still sides with his own kind). He is essentially telling you, "You can stop it if you can prove yourself by standing on your own two feet for once instead of relying on borrowed power." He WANTS you to succeed in stopping the endless bloodshed between his and your own people and instead unite them, something that had never been done before. He just knows you will need help doing it.

Hydaelyn taught you how to ride a bike with training wheels (gets you from point A to B, but requires little skill). Midgardsormr is there to rip them off and force you to learn without their help (gets you from point A to B, but makes you work harder for it).