Can I have my disease back?

[Brianmj]

A year ago a group of people claimed that Summoner was overpowered in Wolves' Den and they asked for a Nerf. A nerf in the Wolves' Den. Square obliged and took away the job's ability to battle raise, apply heavy, reduced Miasma's healing debuff, and if it is to be believed, the Egis ability to interrupt casting. I would like what was taken to be returned to the job. The nerfs for the job in Wolves' Den were never given consideration when 2.3 came about. We've never seen the job played to the fullest extent in Frontlines because of the nerfs. While I concede that the job may have been a problem 4v4 PvP, the impact any single job gets heavily marginalized in large scale battles. While triple raise ability may have been a problem in the Wolves Den, it's a frequent occurrence in Frontlines and does not seem to affect the outcome of any one play session. Disease - WHM & BLM have both retained their form of heavy while Arcanist lost theirs. How is this fair? Kiting is intrinsic to the job, and without heavy the job has lost a very important tool. Summoners survivability is poor compared to the other mages with only Swiftcast Tri-Disaster at our disposal and a stun that our Egi performs at his discretion. The job does not get any type of self casting shield and so will go down quicker than a BLM. Summoner is naked.

A Summoner's impact is less felt now compared to when FFXIV PvP first rolled out. Please consider giving back Summoner its tools. It would be much appreciated.

If anything, please give back the heavy from the two Miasmas.

Edit - Furthermore, please implement these changes only for Secure.

[DividedSky]

I hope this is a joke. My friend was in a slaughter match last night as summoner.... did 200k damage and went 19-1. Just ltp bra.

[Mutemutt]

It's worth noting that blm has to use blizzard I for heavy to last long enough to be useful, which drops their damage if they were in astral fire trying to kill someone and healers will mostly be busy healing. I don't have a blm so I don't know if casting blizzard for heavy is really worth it; I've probably only been hit by it a handful of times in hundreds of matches I've played. Miasma is tied to smn's main source of damage and so it will be cast whether it has a debuff attached to it or not. They wouldn't have to trade anything to cast a heavy, so it's not exactly the same situation as whm and blm.

Oh, and from what I understand, pets can still interrupt casts, it just requires them to land a critical hit.

[Brianmj]

I hope this is a joke. My friend was in a slaughter match last night as summoner.... did 200k damage and went 19-1. Just ltp bra.

This has nothing to do with skill. It's just a request to give back the tools that were taken. Furthermore I'd like to see this done for Secure. Slaughter is too new, so no changes while people are are still trying to get a sense of things.

[Atreus]

This has nothing to do with skill. It's just a request to give back the tools that were taken. Furthermore I'd like to see this done for Secure. Slaughter is too new, so no changes while people are are still trying to get a sense of things.

It has everything to do with skill. You're making it seem as if SMN is worthless right now. It's... really not.

Instant, 40% heavy that could be AoE as well was broken, very broken, so it was removed. It had little to do with Wolves' Den, but with PvP at large. Go ahead and have it brought back, but I wouldn't expect it to last long.

[Mutemutt]

I wasn't saying anything about player skill. You brought up the point that whm and blm still have their heavy as if to say that smn having miasma cause heavy wouldn't change anything, and I talked about why they are a different case. You actually rarely see heavy in Secure and Slaughter because the move is either on a really long cooldown (the case for weapon throw) or the users just have more important things to be doing at the time (whm and blm) but giving smn heavy may bring much more heavy into the game since they don't have to go out of their way to cast it. Whether that is good or bad for the balance of pvp is up for debate, and that's all I really care about.

If miasma no longer causing heavy is good for the balance, then yeah, it's fair.

[Brianmj]

snip

Resistance builds up fast. That's why BLMs don't spam sleep over and over for he sake of it. Summoner wouldn't gain anything by casting it on any and all targets because when it's needed at a critical moment, the target will just resist. Disease being tied to our main source of damage is more of a problem than a benefit. Thankfully Disease can't be Baned so there's that. If a BLM needs someone to be heavier they have the tool to do so; So does WHM. Maybe if the disease could only be applied by Miasma 2...

[Atreus]

It doesn't need to be Baned. Miasma II is AoE and still instant.

Disease and heavy are two separate debuffs with separate resistance buildups and a stacking effect. Abilities like Tempered Will and Elusive Jump do not remove disease, forcing the use of Purify, but oh wait.. INSTA DISEASE AGAIN NOW I DOT U UP LOLS.

As someone who's dealt with it in Wolves' Den, it's broken as shit. Next you're going to ask for Miasma's curing debuff to be reinstated to its previous amount.

[Brianmj]

It has everything to do with skill. You're making it seem as if SMN is worthless right now. It's... really not.

Instant, 40% heavy that could be AoE as well was broken, very broken, so it was removed. It had little to do with Wolves' Den, but with PvP at large. Go ahead and have it brought back, but I wouldn't expect it to last long.

First, I don't think Summoner is worthless. Second, it has everything to do with how Summoner performed in Wolves Den because that was the only PvP available when the Nerf was applied. We've never got to see how Summoner performs unnerfed in Frontlines. It's kind of like BLM's Swiftcast flare. We would have never known it to be a thing in 4v4 PvP, but it's a thing in large scale PvP and it needed to be nerfed. Same with cleric stance. We don't know if Disease would a problem in Frontlines because we were never given the chance to try it out. Let us try it out in Secure, if it's a problem, I agree, take it out again.

[Brianmj]

I wasn't saying anything about player skill.

If miasma no longer causing heavy is good for the balance, then yeah, it's fair.

Sorry, the reply concerning skill was for Sneak Ers and his learn to play comment. I forgot to quote him.

Your comment about heavy being not much of a thing. I don't know about Slaughter, I rarely play that mode, but it was a thing in Secure. It was very good for chasing down a fleeing targets. Ninjas used their ground heavy AoE at flags and choke points all the time. Melee would always use weapon throw on me if they saw me trying to get away. Heavy was/is a thing in Secure. And there were quite a few times I would Stone someone trying to get away for my party. And please tell me the first thing you did, when seeing someone on a mount, within casting range, please tell the first thing that comes to mind for you is ruin 2. We have heavy from all these sources, yet the one from Summoner is a problem.