Should Cleric Stance be disabled during Dungeons and Raids?

[Lycelle]

After reading this, the silence was broken by the sound of my soul cracking. I've read some silly things (like the Moogle forum) but this takes the cake.



Yes because I totally need those Cure/Psychik spam while in ilvl 110 gear in Ampador Keep Normal. I mean, God forbid if anyone wants to speed up an encounter or to do more than watch a tank's HP bar move by a tiny amount. I bet you're the type of healer who overheals or spams cure at 90% HP.

1. I don't know you and I didn't make any personal attack towards you or your play style. So please refrain from doing it to me. Thanks.

2. If you had read my post in it's entirety I was stating it from a 8 man raid perspective and not 4.

Nobody here has said healers have to DPS. We're disagreeing with OP's belief that the one tool that healers have FOR DPSing (when they *want* to) should be removed from places where they serve a very big purpose.

And in Final Coil, it's more than just "DPS aren't good enough to meet the check" - in cases where they are, additional SCH DPS can push the phase that much faster, skip a fifth (or fourth) Bennu in T12, etc. For groups clearing T13, does the healer NEED to DPS? No. But does the healer need to be healing 24/7? No. Does healer DPS make it that much easier and faster? Yes.

I mean, heck, people are already solo healing T10, 11, and 12. Healers have plenty of time to DPS if only one healer needs to be actually healing - and there's still room for a solo healer to DPS.

You kinda just stuck your foot in your mouth mate. If Healers are geared enough to solo Heal those turns, then that means by that point DPS should be geared enough to take down the content without "needing" DPS from Healers. I'm not saying Healer DPS is a bad thing. But with the way most people play a lot of people tunnel vision which makes things tricky. I don't trust a lot of people to know what they are doing in the first place. So I kinda set in emergency plans in case things go south, usually solo healing is done when content usually "has" echo on it. BUT with the exception of gear it is also possible for solo healing to occur and then in that case, by all means DPS away if you can sneak some in there.

Also keep in mind, a lot of people don't have that mindset of "Need to Heal and DPS." To force that on someone is kinda rude and I don't think it would blow over too well. But in my opinion I think Cleric Stance is just fine the way it is. I DPS/Heal myself, but there "are" times where I won't but that really depends on if I am comfortable with the party at that given time. I usually don't trust DPS as far as I can throw them and there's a lot of them.

[DoctorPepper]

2. If you had read my post in it's entirety I was stating it from a 8 man raid perspective and not 4.

4 man or 8 man.. it makes no difference unless we're talking about coil where healing actually becomes a challenge. When you have an 8 man group you also get twice the amount of heals and aoe healing counts for a lot more than it does in 4 man.

I'm sorry but it seems like you're just trying to make excuses to be lazy, if you want to sit around pressing 1 or 2 buttons the entire dungeon that's your own decision but in my opinion that makes you a bad healer. Any good healer with a little bit of gear can throw out 100-150+ dps and keep everybody topped off, it's not hard; it just takes practice.

Also, last time I checked both whm and sch have some very good dps skills, if you think SE intended for healers to sit there and spam cures then why would they give the dps abilities to healers in the first place? Why do you think cleric stance exists? To sit on your hotbar and never be used?

The idea to remove cleric stance is terrible and just an excuse to be lazy. Play your job to its full extent or don't play it at all in my opinion.

[Lycelle]

The idea to remove cleric stance is terrible and just an excuse to be lazy. Play your job to its full extent or don't play it at all in my opinion.

This game isn't just made for Hardcore players dude. The way you're coming at this topic seems to be from a more hardcore stand point, which is fine. But there are casual players out there who play the game just for fun. Why should they be forced to live up to your expectations because you want them to?

[Sigmakan]

This game isn't just made for Hardcore players dude. The way you're coming at this topic seems to be from a more hardcore stand point, which is fine. But there are casual players out there who play the game just for fun. Why should they be forced to live up to your expectations because you want them to?

Great part about Cleric Stance is that it can be toggled on/off. No one is forced to do anything.

If a healer isn't comfortable with DPSing during a dungeon, whatever that's fine.

[DoctorPepper]

This game isn't just made for Hardcore players dude. The way you're coming at this topic seems to be from a more hardcore stand point, which is fine. But there are casual players out there who play the game just for fun. Why should they be forced to live up to your expectations because you want them to?

Nobody is forcing you to live up to others' expectations but I'm not going to sit there and pretend you're some great healer when you don't use half of your abilities because you find it less fun. I never give people shit in dungeons or raids, do what you want as far as I'm concerned, that's what I do. Just don't get upset when people say you're not playing your job effectively.

The reason people think healers that don't dps are bad is because they are wasting every bodies time, including their own, by refusing to play their job as intended. If it wasn't intended to be played that way, half your abilities wouldn't be for dps.

[Tiggy]

This game isn't just made for Hardcore players dude. The way you're coming at this topic seems to be from a more hardcore stand point, which is fine. But there are casual players out there who play the game just for fun. Why should they be forced to live up to your expectations because you want them to?

Alternatively, why should more capable players be forced to play at a lower level? That question swings both ways. Leave it there. Let people play the way they want. If a team has a healer who doesn't DPS and the other team members want the healer to DPS then there is a mismatch. Find a new healer. There is literally no reason people can't play the way they want and with people who play in similar ways. Any argument that suggests people should force one group to play like another is too self entitled to be serious.

[Sebazy]

You kinda just stuck your foot in your mouth mate. If Healers are geared enough to solo Heal those turns, then that means by that point DPS should be geared enough to take down the content without "needing" DPS from Healers.

Or rather, you ignored the point he was trying to make.

Turns 12 and 13 get quite significantly easier as your DPS improves, T12's phase 3 goes from requiring both healers to throw everything they have right down to being outright trivial for a single SCH. In effect, by increasing your raid's DPS, you are massively dropping the amount of healing required. Far more so than you might expect.

Whilst I agree that a healer shouldn't be required to DPS in Turns 1-9 now, if you want to progress at the pointy end, you really need fully grasp every last little niche of your spell book. If you can't handle that then I can only say that progression raiding isn't for you.

[Aurora-Pendragon]

There are a lot of bad healers in this game. Please, don't suggest them to DPS more. Thank you.

[ManweSulimo]

As a healer myself I personally am straight up outraged by even the thought of this.

I probably would quit the game kinda like I haven't run frontlines (except maybe once?) since they took it out

My opinion of a healer is that it is a DPS class until healing is necessary and I spend 80% of my time in most content in cleric stance. It's really fun for me beginning a fight and watching the agro table and trying to get to the top without casting a heal

[Evangela]

OP, if you don't want to do damage then don't do it.

other healers want to do and many of them are happy to do so.