To Touch with Death or not to Touch with Death. (Mnk question)

[AniCelestine]

I've recently swap to monk from smn and been doing some parses with a friend to come up with the best rotation, and I've run into crossroads and don't know which way to continue. Doing the
dk>twin>snap*
Boot>true>snap*
*replace snap with demo if it's about to fall off
So I'm generally applying demo every 3rd time and leaving ToD out completely. According to my and my friends parses it's been a little over 5dps more to do that than using "flank combo > back combo >ToD if needed" also I tend to run out of tp a bit slower since not using 80TP costing ToD. The parser simulates the DoTs and the simulated damage is generally about 5% higher than what it really is and using ToD is still worse according to the parser.

I've been reading from some threads that always remember to use your ToD but it seems like there's only cons and no pros with it(lower dps and higher TP consumption), so should I just not use it or should I use it and believe that parsers are conspiring against me >:c

[Ricdeau]

Can you elaborate further on your ToD usage when you do your rotations with Demo around every third rotation? ToD if used right is going to be a DPS increase.

[AniCelestine]

What I've now been using is (after opener with PB)
boot > True > Demo
>dk > twin > snap
> boot > true > snap
> dk > twin > demo
and so on, with the skillspeed I have I can get snug in 2x snap before having to re-apply demo.

But if I'm starting to use ToD in that rotation I can't really find a way to get snap x2 anymore, I can get it 1 or 2 times after starting rotation(ToD > PB > Demo > Snap(bfb) >snap(IR) >twin(steelpeak) >DK) but after that 1 or 2 I seem to be stuck at ToD and Demo dropping off at the same time which means I'll either refresh demo at 7 seconds left and ToD when it's going to drop, or refresh Demo when it's 'bout to drop and lose ToD for a gcd, which as a former smn, doens't sound like a good option either.

Guess I'm just doing one demo/ToD too early at some point, which fucks up the timing for other ToD/Demo and I can't seem to correct that while on the go without refresing one of them early. Which now that I'm writing it up, made me realise that I must be refreshing either too early at some point which makes it being stuck like that. I needa go back to punching some striking dummy once I get out of work.

[Ricdeau]

I see, you need to not worry so much if Demo or ToD falls for a second or just a few seconds. That's normal, and while the ideal it to refresh right as they drop it's not always possible. Don't look at it as absolutes, and think that dropping Demo or ToD for a few seconds is going to tank your DPS. In a full uptime situation you'll generally get two Snaps between Demo refreshes, and when refresh ToD it's not out of the ordinary for that to cause Demo to drop briefly. Sometimes a better option if they are expiring at or near the same time is to hold ToD until you refresh Demo.

Also have you tried dropping ToD as your first move? I'm personally not much of a fan of using it first since you can get it up fully buffed quickly. Do your PB opener and then use ToD. Your timing will change, and refreshes might then become slightly more comfortable. People make out the opener like it's what makes or breaks you, but in the course of a real fight it doesn't mean that much. It's there to get you to GL3 fast first and foremost.

[SunnyHirose]

ToD is on the order of 0.4~1% more DPS if you use it whenever it is about to fall off, a difference which can easily be overshadowed by crits and stuff.

Demolish is supposed to fall off under conventional usage (even if it's about half a second). It's technically a DoT, but is best understood as 2 GCDs of an 18-GCD loop because the ticks are so strong that any opportunity you get to clip it cuts into its potency quite a bit. At that point where you see ToD and Demolish both about to fall off, the optimal thing to do depends entirely on what's best to do for ToD, because whatever you do isn't going to affect the loop one bit (except when oGCD buffs are factored in, then it's a little more complicated I guess).

ToD before using PB is weaker than doing it after, since you're only sacrificing ~3 ticks to get 27% GL3, 10% Twin Snakes (those two alone more than make up for the lost ticks), and possibly 10% Blood for Blood, >10% Internal Release, >10% potion on the first one, to say nothing of these things buffing auto-attacks as well. Not always (KotL bosses make me miss the first stack refresh if I try this ), just as a general thing.

[AniCelestine]

Thanks for the replies, guess the summoner mind set I had made it a bit hard for me to realise I'm not supposed to play DoTs on monk in the same way as on summoner. And didn't even think of that moving ToD from the start to after GL3 + other buffs are up is better. Cheers

[Traison]

I have a related question. First off I wanna say I don't have a Ninja in the group, but I do have a Bard and he does what he can, it helps, but it is not enough at times.
After many tests I have found that once I reach 300 or so TP it is better to not use ToD at all or else you just tank your TP incredibly fast thus actually losing more dps than if you were to just use ToD as soon as it falls off.

So the question is, is it better to keep using ToD regardless of TP remaining or to keep a buffer zone after a certain amount for enough of a pool left over while waiting for Invigorate and if so what amount would you say is a good amount, i've been experimenting with 400 as my cutoff and it feels a little safer on progression fights.

Good example is T11 on 2nd phase where once the first 2 nodes are dead and you are focusing on the egg, you generally need the most dps possible and cutting ToD seems better. (This is but one example and not indicating any player deficiency on the mechanics)

[Ricdeau]

This is something where party coordination and situation awareness are key. You should be working with your bard on timing when to use Paeon. This is pretty key because you don't want to run dry, but you also don't want your bard having to play Paeon more than necessary. Also, Ballad need to be used much in the same way with healers. It's just a big balance act that your entire party has to be aware and make efficient use of what they have available to them. My raid in particular was very Ballad happy in the first two Coils, but during Second Coil I had to make them start tightening up things because it was really hurting the bard DPS and he'd always be out of MP unable to play Paeon. Obviously not every fight goes according to plan so there are situations where dropping ToD will be a good idea until you can get your TP back in order.

Unless you are getting pretty high on SS a bard will usually blow through TP faster than a monk will with moderate to low SS. My bard usually has to play Paeon to keep himself going before I'm in dire need of it. I run a monk/ninja/bard/black mage DPS comp now so TP isn't near the issue it used to be, but we ran all of Second Coil without ninja, and we just really worked on communication on when to play as whole. We just look for the places where lost DPS will have the least impact. I rarely ever cut out ToD unless I died during the fight. Battle voice+Paeon is also something to consider if TP is an issue in your longer fights to help get people back up to reasonable levels as well.