Why not abolish the Class system entirely in favor of Jobs? [@ Devs]

[GodseijuroHiko]

Not complicated at all unless you are trying to make it that way... Also abilities are changing in ARR and you can already see it in the video where the CNJ has a water attack spell... They have also said all class/jobs are being reworked and mnk is getting some big changes...

I would say the class > job system is fine and they can always add more abilities to the jobs since it is not based on level but on quests. Also there are a lot of weapons/items that can be used to make more classes so I don't think we need to have 2 jobs to each class or more... I will also point out that I don't think that is how they are looking at it either since in an old interview Yoshi mentioned taking daggers out of the sword grouping to give to a scout class that would have the job ninja... so I think they are looking at more classes with a job coming from each class.

The cat is bemused =-.-=

That's exactly what I said. However, people kept using that as a reason as to why they loved the classes. It made no sense. I clearly stated the class system can stay exactly the way it is if we just accept the fact that it's always going to be class > job > whatever they add in the future. Some people just think it's a waste of time. Hey that's their opinion. The branching system doesn't work. No Gladiator > PaladinDark/Knight nonsense.

[Davorok]

I see a lot of peeps talking about 1 Class = 1 Job but that is not really the case. While it is true there is currently 1 Base Class per Job, it really is 2 Classes = 1 Job.

Here is a little reminder of which Classes lead to which Jobs and the Class Abilities each Job can use:

Paladin Requirements: Level 30 gladiator and level 15 conjurer.
+ Marauder and Conjurer Abilities.

Monk Requirements: Level 30 pugilist and level 15 lancer
+ Lancer and Archer Abilities.

Warrior Requirements: Level 30 marauder and level 15 gladiator
+ Gladiator and Pugilist Abilities.

Dragoon Requirements: Level 30 lancer and level 15 pugilist
+ Pugilist and Archer Abilities.

Bard Requirements: Level 30 archer and level 15 conjurer
+ Conjurer and Thaumaturge Abilities.

White Mage Requirements: Level 30 conjurer and level 15 gladiator
+ Gladiator and Pugilist Abilities.

Black Mage Requirements: Level 30 thaumaturge and level 15 pugilist
+ Pugilist and Archer Abilities.

Summoner Requirements: Level 30 Arcanist and ???
+ ??? and ??? Abilities.

My point in posting this is to remind everyone that Yoshi & Devs can mix n' match to create whatever Jobs they want to and the addition of the Arcanist Class gives them even more possibilities. They could (and just might) include Existing Jobs into the mix n' match for Future Jobs.

Before they created Jobs, I was not a fan of the Armoury System but now I see the ingenuity of it. Just by adding 1 New Class per expansion, they can add several New Jobs with all the possible combinations. Even if they do not add any New Classes in the future, they can still just use Job + Class as a base.

Also please keep in mind that Yoshi said All CLasses & Jobs have been tweaked, so I am guessing they are rebalancing the Abilities and retooling which ones are Cross-Class and Cross-Job most likely with future Jobs in mind.

(edit: one more thing)

Also keep in mind that Weapons do not determine the Job...Job Stones determine the Job, so they can add any Job Specific weapons they want to, ie. Rapiers, GreatSwords, Scythes, Spathas, Katanas, etc.

[Raagnar]

Whats with all the hate on the classes. Its a stepping stone, its content, you are actually requesting less content? what are you gaining by making it job only? There are many mmos out with branching paths for class play and advanced trees. This is in the same line but you can change back freely. Even for the sake of story and lore, keep the classes, dont care if I never use lancer again, it has its place here.

[dbrewer225]

boy yall need to get off yall soapbox and get over it. classes are not going anywhere. some of yall are still stuck on using ff11 mechanics with weapon usage and jobs. ff14 needs its own identity. imo classes to jobs is the best thing to happen to ff14.

[lolodin]

I think they should make more like ff1 lol start off with a job (black mage) do some quest an upgrade it to adv job (black wizard) no weapon restrictions what so ever except the ones made for that job staffs etc. no mages with swords no dd with staffs

[Shougun]

You are forgetting something: all those jobs were after 10 years.

They didn't come out right away, agreed. However it is extremely important to build systems that can be expanded upon logically and efficiently. The current job system is one that will just get messier and less unique as time goes on - it can go on.. but as SE has the opportunity to change it they might as well before in ARR release its just called a bad feature.

(Perhaps in ARR beta there are bigger changes to classes)

I think they should make more like ff1 lol start off with a job (black mage) do some quest an upgrade it to adv job (black wizard) no weapon restrictions what so ever except the ones made for that job staffs etc. no mages with swords no dd with staffs

Never knew why mages with small swords was a problem XD.. I mean Gandolf.. common.. great staff great sword dual wielding badass...

But yeah I think a more FFT/FFXI job system approach would be better.

People mentioning ffxi and using different weapons on a job need to remember that that was not a choice, there was a right and wrong. War using dagger = fail. yes you had the option but who does it? its a fake choice. Example: FFXIV warrior maxes out INT and MND = WEAK. Its not a true choice because there is a right and wrong answer, its a calculated descision.

Remember, SE made the armoury system. The can bend it how they wish, if drk does come from gla they dont HAVE to use swords they can change it however they like, and even if they do turn drk into a semi-tank there is nothing wrong with that other then your hurt nostalgia "drk is DD /cry". BRD has been changed from the pathetic role it was in ffxi, lets face it, very few truly liked bard for what it was, just how they got praised for being the buffer bitch.

The lack of 'choice' between 'the choices' available is SE/The Dev teams fault, not the systems. And there where some pretty good off the norm for that job weapons, but I agree it wasn't as often or as many as I would have liked.

[Raagnar]

People mentioning ffxi and using different weapons on a job need to remember that that was not a choice, there was a right and wrong. War using dagger = fail. yes you had the option but who does it? its a fake choice. Example: FFXIV warrior maxes out INT and MND = WEAK. Its not a true choice because there is a right and wrong answer, its a calculated descision.

Remember, SE made the armoury system. The can bend it how they wish, if drk does come from gla they dont HAVE to use swords they can change it however they like, and even if they do turn drk into a semi-tank there is nothing wrong with that other then your hurt nostalgia "drk is DD /cry". BRD has been changed from the pathetic role it was in ffxi, lets face it, very few truly liked bard for what it was, just how they got praised for being the buffer bitch.

[Raagnar]

Considering the system is unable to make descisions and upgrade itself.. of course its the devs "fault". But im not sure what you mean since there is nothing wrong with removing false choices. But people requested things like this, they removed stat allocation and players wanted it back badly so they got it. I guess if players realy really want to use less useful weapons for their job Im ok with it but Im betting youre still going to get the WAR uses GA or gtfo mentality of ffxi.

[Shougun]

Considering the system is unable to make descisions and upgrade itself.. of course its the devs "fault". But im not sure what you mean since there is nothing wrong with removing false choices. But people requested things like this, they removed stat allocation and players wanted it back badly so they got it. I guess if players realy really want to use less useful weapons for their job Im ok with it but Im betting youre still going to get the WAR uses GA or gtfo mentality of ffxi.

False choices will always exist - the thing is not to 'attempt' to remove them but make the player satisfied in making them (and at the same time make them think they didnt make a false choice). Even if you made a system that appeared to be 100% false choice-less at face value if you ever made a given scenario like fighting X boss then more false choices would appear.

Also in FFXI there were spears that samurai could use that were awesome - the freedom of weapon choice wasn't always a facade. I said it was the dev's fault for making so few choices. But there are not that many weapons and unlike WoW the weapons didnt /roll stats so that is part of the reason.

[Raagnar]

False choices will always exist - the thing is not to 'attempt' to remove them but make the player satisfied in making them (and at the same time make them think they didnt make a false choice). Even if you made a system that appeared to be 100% false choice-less at face value if you ever made a given scenario like fighting X boss then more false choices would appear.

Also in FFXI there were spears that samurai could use that were awesome - the freedom of weapon choice wasn't always a facade. I said it was the dev's fault for making so few choices. But there are not that many weapons and unlike WoW the weapons didnt /roll stats so that is part of the reason.

I think you misunderstand what i mean by choice in video games. We are all faced with events labeled as choices in our day to day lives, what to wear, what to eat, practically everything you do. None of this has anything to do with video game choice in regards to development.

Reactions and calculations are not choices. Boss battles provide no choice unless the outcome effects your character permanently in some way. Im not saying using false choice in games is bad, there are plenty of fun titles that decieve the player into thinking they had an option when the outcome is always the same, or you fail because you made the wrong choice. But we dont need it in this system imo.

SAM using polearm was in special situations against mobs weak to piercing and can hardly be considered a standard or viable permanent option, all sam will always have a great katana as well(at least when I played).