Why not abolish the Class system entirely in favor of Jobs? [@ Devs]

[Chiz]

Bunch of stuff only made possible through the ARMOURY SYSTEM

Thanks for proving my point, the Armoury System allows you to play how you want to play and provides a vast array of ways in which to accomplish it. The Job system will largely remove the ability to "Cure" yourself if that is not your job's main role.

But it seems you are fixated on the semantics of "Cure" when most people understand that term encompasses ANY ability that allows you to recover lost Hit Points. Who cares what its called? If you had an ability to "Spawn Dingleberry" that used "Mulch Points" to recover HP what difference would it make that its not called "Cure" and doesn't use "MP"? Would it make you feel better if melee got "Power" or "Rage" to spend on "Morale Boosts" instead?

It actually sounds like you want a Diablo-style Barb that leeches HP while dealing damage, in essence, a melee-DD that is self-sufficient on healing. Unfortunately you don't seem to understand that you're arguing against the system that gives you this kind of independence to some degree while advocating the one that will most likely take it away.

[Khal_Drogo]

Thanks for proving my point, the Armoury System allows you to play how you want to play and provides a vast array of ways in which to accomplish it. The Job system will largely remove the ability to "Cure" yourself if that is not your job's main role.

But it seems you are fixated on the semantics of "Cure" when most people understand that term encompasses ANY ability that allows you to recover lost Hit Points. Who cares what its called? If you had an ability to "Spawn Dingleberry" that used "Mulch Points" to recover HP what difference would it make that its not called "Cure" and doesn't use "MP"? Would it make you feel better if melee got "Power" or "Rage" to spend on "Morale Boosts" instead?

It actually sounds like you want a Diablo-style Barb that leeches HP while dealing damage, in essence, a melee-DD that is self-sufficient on healing. Unfortunately you don't seem to understand that you're arguing against the system that gives you this kind of independence to some degree while advocating the one that will most likely take it away.

Wow, you really don't understand the concept of "critical thinking" do you. Try actually analyzing the words you read, and uncovering a recurring theme. As I said, those were just SUGGESTIONS. Hell, I even said I don't really know what EXACTLY should be done. What I do know, however, is that I don't like extensive cross-overs, and neither do a lot of other ppl. I would prefer for EACH job to have it's own form of "cure," (to use the term, generally, rather than literally), but that's not the only way to solve the issue. I just don't know what is the right way w/o diablo w/e you were saying... Because for one, the armory system only opens up that option if we're willing to lvl 10 different jobs (exaggerating a bit, but HOPEFULLY you get the point). What if someone absolutely despises thm and cnj, or mrd, or pgl, or any other number of jobs...What if all they like is ARC, for example (don't think it has any of it's own cures)? Are you proposing that the only way for ppl to solo on this game should be accomplished by *forcing them to lvl jobs they don't even like?

With a job/sub job system, or anything other than the armory system, SE would be a lot more efficient w/ maintaining balance. It's much easier to evaluate *one* thing, individually, than an infinite number of combinations across an array of some-odd number of classes. Plz try to think outside of *your* little box every now and then. Consider other ppl's feelings, and not just your own -I beg of you. Nothing gets accomplished w/ close-minded thinking. Just because it's the way the game began, doesn't mean it's what the game should *continue.

[akisato]

Wow, you really don't understand the concept of "critical thinking" do you. Try actually analyzing the words you read, and uncovering a recurring theme. As I said, those were just SUGGESTIONS. Hell, I even said I don't really know what EXACTLY should be done. What I do know, however, is that I don't like extensive cross-overs, and neither do a lot of other ppl. I would prefer for EACH job to have it's own form of "cure," (to use the term, generally, rather than literally), but that's not the only way to solve the issue. I just don't know what is the right way w/o diablo w/e you were saying... Because for one, the armory system only opens up that option if we're willing to lvl 10 different jobs (exaggerating a bit, but HOPEFULLY you get the point). What if someone absolutely despises thm and cnj, or mrd, or pgl, or any other number of jobs...What if all they like is ARC, for example (don't think it has any of it's own cures)? Are you proposing that the only way for ppl to solo on this game should be accomplished by *forcing them to lvl jobs they don't even like?

As i read this it made me think of children who don't like to eat their vegetables because they aren't sweet.

[akisato]

With a job/sub job system, or anything other than the armory system, SE would be a lot more efficient w/ maintaining balance. It's much easier to evaluate *one* thing, individually, than an infinite number of combinations across an array of some-odd number of classes. Plz try to think outside of *your* little box every now and then. Consider other ppl's feelings, and not just your own -I beg of you. Nothing gets accomplished w/ close-minded thinking. Just because it's the way the game began, doesn't mean it's what the game should *continue.

Most of what you said here is meaningless us big kids stay away for personal attacks. As far as the number of combo for ablities there are far less if you think of role not class.

[Commat]

us big kids stay away for personal attacks.

Apparently not.

[akisato]

Apparently not.

Quite true.
I see what you did there (the same thing as me), LOL.

But it seems you forgot to add somethhing to the discussion hope this is just an oversight on my part.

[Neptune]

I would prefer it if they would not half ass it and just implement the job system and banish classes from existence. It would be necessary to let people class change once, or swap classes around once into something they're comfortable with.

My primary choice would be for them to not use the job system at all and only use the Armoury system but they've already strung the whole world along too far. So I hope they see that having a half assed character system is going to really hurt this game's appeal, no matter how hard they can convince themselves that it makes sense. I'm fairly certain that anyone taking an objective, fresh look at whatever they finally cook up will just conclude that it's a terrible system.

An example of half assing it: saying they're keeping classes but then reassigning some class actions. Say what?? It's like grafting a monkey head onto a cow. Just be done with it and put the class system out of it's misery.

[Gennosuke]

I think it is funny that we're all talking about being able to "specialize" how we see fit. I have never seen such a generic set up of abilities. For example, we all set protect, shell, cure, sac, raise, second wind, voke, defender, shockspikes, siphon MP, stoneskin and some buffs like Raging Strike. Every person I have played with has this generic set up. All our stats are pointless, since they make no difference right now, not a substantial one at least, it doesn't matter that we can allot them as we see fit. There is no difference in races, we're all the pretty much the same. I am not seeing how this armory system is creating individuality. I do not know if a job system will fix it or not but I know right now I see less variety than I ever did in XI. I guess what I am saying is, the class system is not the best idea SE has had for character advancement.

Exactly right. Actually, it's more sad than funny. :/
Armoury system while theoretically sounds fun and versatile, is quite short sighted.
There are far too many issues with it to count.
I think that's given, with SE's plans for drastic changes and overhaul of battle/class system and introduction of Jobs.
It just never ceases to amaze me how mind-boggling it is that some people are still defending this Abomination System when SE is trying to fix the damn thing and overhaul the whole system from the ground up and introduce a new Job system on top of that.

To get back on topic though, Job system while not entirely addressing this Abomination System, it is an attempt at a step forward in the right direction, it is the series defining trademark afterall as Yoshi put it, but i'll have to agree with OP. As i had mentioned in another thread, Keep one simple yet deep system rather than two. They're opening a can of worms. The Armoury system, after one year is still far from efficient and is still being addressed and will continue to be addressed. Now they have 2 systems to work on, cater for and balance, as well as the fact that the whole rest of the game will be thoroughly involved by this decision - content, mobs, difficulty, casuals/hardcore/solo/party, lore/story.
Is that a wise decision to make in the current state of the game?
Why not ditch class system and just have full focus on new job system and expand on it to cater for all sorts of players?

I would prefer it if they would not half ass it and just implement the job system and banish classes from existence. It would be necessary to let people class change once, or swap classes around once into something they're comfortable with.

My primary choice would be for them to not use the job system at all and only use the Armoury system but they've already strung the whole world along too far. So I hope they see that having a half assed character system is going to really hurt this game's appeal, no matter how hard they can convince themselves that it makes sense. I'm fairly certain that anyone taking an objective, fresh look at whatever they finally cook up will just conclude that it's a terrible system.

An example of half assing it: saying they're keeping classes but then reassigning some class actions. Say what?? It's like grafting a monkey head onto a cow. Just be done with it and put the class system out of it's misery.

Yes, This is the harsh reality and outcome of these plans. half assed system.
The Abomination system is no more and job system is not solid enough for all players to use.

Just be done with it and put the class system out of it's misery.

Just Pull the trigger now SE, you know you want to. do it! This will be your turning point for this game. You wont look back.

You already replaced the whole dev team, your redesigning the whole world, let the past team's work R.I.P. Bring on the goodness, let this game shine as it's meant to!

[akisato]

Armoury system while theoretically sounds fun and versatile, is quite short sighted.
There are far too many issues with it to count.

If they're so many you wouldn't mind listing some for us would you? (other then the names are wrong.)

[Kurai]

2 points i would like to make to the OP, sorry to state the obvious lol

LNC cant be called DRG unless they add the pet.

And why should they rename the classes anyways?

they might as well rename the race's to taru galks etc..

why not start a thread called "rename Final Fantasy XIV to Final Fantasy XI 2"

If they become to alike the only diffrence will be the graphics. Now dont get me wrong i loved XI and played it for a long time and i am enjoying XIV yet i agree it still needs alot of work to become a great game. but i think stepping back to XI everything someone dose not like something is a bit stupid. I'm just sayin'