Why not abolish the Class system entirely in favor of Jobs? [@ Devs]

[Abriael]

Yep and you can do that in a FFT system too. OooOooh THM and GLD make BLM now go have fun. :/

You'd have to largely change the storyline to involve GLD, that at the moment have absolutely *nothing* to do with BLM, story-wise.

Yoshida is looking to all games for improvements. I can mention pac man I want, not that I need Yoshida's permission to mention another game. Technicalities can become destruction over long periods of time as a small chip turns into a crack. That I can see the future.. no.. but I dont see it being helpful when Yoshida wants to create unique and completely separate job classes like a blue mage and not have to "ghetto rig" the system just to make it work.

Too bad that nothing of the current system says that they HAVE to have new jobs attached to a class. There's no ghetto rigging to be done. Also, new jobs can alternatively simply be attached to older classes, adding further flexibility to the system.

As a matter of fact, I believe Yoshida already said that they're going one of those two ways.

Classes are flexible, agreed. And in the suggested system it would remain so.

And you would lose the balancing factor that you can either be specialized or flexible, depending on you equipping class or job.

Opinion. I disagree with.

Again, try asking someone if you can tank Garuda as a gladiator or a marauder. Lemme know how it works for you.

[Shougun]

You'd have to largely change the storyline to involve GLD, that at the moment have absolutely *nothing* to do with BLM, story-wise.

Bleh messing up my game knowldge. I meant PGL all this time, said GLD.. XD

THM + PGL = BLM

Too bad that nothing of the current system says that they HAVE to have new jobs attached to a class. There's no ghetto rigging to be done. Also, new jobs can alternatively simply be attached to older classes, adding further flexibility to the system.

Nothing says you cant either. And the ghetto rigging as making certain classes have multiple weapons or making a class JUST for a particular job.

And you would lose the balancing factor that you can either be specialized or flexible, depending on you equipping class or job.

You would only lose balance if they didn't balance it themselves. I already said that advance jobs would still be limited to two subjobs and that normal jobs would be the proverbial class. Difference being advance jobs (adv jobs) and classes (jobs) can be better defined as they would be more separate.

Again, try asking someone if you can tank Garuda as a gladiator or a marauder. Lemme know how it works for you.

Has nothing to do with my opinion the job system is crippled for improvement. (Not broken, but crippled).

[SkyeWindbinder]

Has nothing to do with my opinion the job system is crippled for improvement. (Not broken, but crippled).

Not that your suggestions don't have some novelty to them, but what I'd like to know is what's really so broken about the system as it is? No one is limited to only one class or one job, you can work your way up to whatever you want and be whatever you want with themere change of a weapon. Besides, as I said, it would depend on how many people want this badly enough to wait longer for ARR to come out so the class/job sytem can be retooled. And I don't know about you, but I don't wanna...

[Shougun]

Not that your suggestions don't have some novelty to them, but what I'd like to know is what's really so broken about the system as it is? No one is limited to only one class or one job, you can work your way up to whatever you want and be whatever you want with themere change of a weapon. Besides, as I said, it would depend on how many people want this badly enough to wait longer for ARR to come out so the class/job sytem can be retooled. And I don't know about you, but I don't wanna...

Not broken XD its just crippled.

I say crippled because lets imagine SE wants to add a samurai job. They have to add the class
Add a beast master job? they have to add the class
Add a Red Mage? They have to add the class.

Because each job doesn't come with its own fully developed set (only comes with 5 abilities) you HAVE to make a class for each job you introduce. Then you run into overflowing the class system because you've made a class for every job and now there are 20 classes and 20 jobs and if you went GLD you have like 500 abilities to choose from that you'd be an awkward mess. At that point adding a new job you have to so insanely balance the class because you already have 19 other classes that can use whatever you introduce. And one of those combinations is going to be game breaking so you spend forever trying to add in one simple class because you made balancing insane.

Rather then that just limit the number of classes and introduce job quests that unlock advance jobs. Or sometimes new basic jobs.

If you try to double up a class (gld -> pld / drk) you run into issues where DRK is DD but is now tanky and cant ever become what he should become.

And you may even have to introduce exclusion rules where the job sphere unlocks new weapons.

[Abriael]

Not broken XD its just crippled.

I say crippled because lets imagine SE wants to add a samurai job. They have to add the class
Add a beast master job? they have to add the class
Add a Red Mage? They have to add the class.

Only they don't. They can either attach it to existing classes OR just develop them completely on their own.

As they already said they can.

[SkyeWindbinder]

Not broken XD its just crippled.

I say crippled because lets imagine SE wants to add a samurai job. They have to add the class
Add a beast master job? they have to add the class
Add a Red Mage? They have to add the class.

Because each job doesn't come with its own fully developed set (only comes with 5 abilities) you HAVE to make a class for each job you introduce. Then you run into overflowing the class system because you've made a class for every job and now there are 20 classes and 20 jobs and if you went GLD you have like 500 abilities to choose from that you'd be an awkward mess. At that point adding a new job you have to so insanely balance the class because you already have 19 other classes that can use whatever you introduce. And one of those combinations is going to be game breaking so you spend forever trying to add in one simple class because you made balancing insane.

Rather then that just limit the number of classes and introduce job quests that unlock advance jobs. Or sometimes new basic jobs.

If you try to double up a class (gld -> pld / drk) you run into issues where DRK is DD but is now tanky and cant ever become what he should become.

And you may even have to introduce exclusion rules where the job sphere unlocks new weapons.

But we still don't really know everything about what's required for the new jobs yet, right? What if the jobs require classes we already have? You know, like what if to be a blue mage you have to become lancer and thaumaturge, or something like that? It might not be as stuffed full of abilities as you think it will. Also, there could always be a limit on what abilities are allowed from job to job. If some abilities are not even available, then that definately limits the large pool of abilities to choose from, getting rid of the crowded abilities problem altogether.

I think your ability does have it's merits, and you have some points wehen it comes to having to deal with what abilities for what job. But i don't think SE will let a job become broken. I could be wrong, but I dont think so.

[Shougun]

But we still don't really know everything about what's required for the new jobs yet, right? What if the jobs require classes we already have? You know, like what if to be a blue mage you have to become lancer and thaumaturge, or something like that? It might not be as stuffed full of abilities as you think it will. Also, there could always be a limit on what abilities are allowed from job to job. If some abilities are not even available, then that fdefinately limits the large pool of abilities to choose from, getting rid of the crowded abilities problem altogether.

Oh yeah that is possible but then lets imagine that class.

A dark knight but we dont want to make a new class (so lets say we use MRD (more damage-y then GLD)) and we change his weapon too (convoluted but possible). And we make the subjob THM.

He does have ok damage.. he does have spells - but what is he really? He is just a copy paste of other classes with 5 special abilities. He has nothing "themed" into being a dark knight its like if you made Dota in WC3 out of all blizzards spells instead of making your own unique ones each time. Yes sure X hero is assassin like Y hero but he has his own theme and feeling - impossible with this class to modified job system. Perhaps people like that, but I dont.

It would work.. it would be boring as hell less exciting (copy paste city).

[Abriael]

Oh yeah that is possible but then lets imagine that class.

A dark knight but we dont want to make a new class (so lets say we use MRD (more damage-y then GLD)) and we change his weapon too (convoluted but possible). And we make the subjob THM.

He does have ok damage.. he does have spells - but what is he really? He is just a copy paste of other classes with 5 special abilities. He has nothing "themed" into being a dark knight its like if you made Dota in WC3 out of all blizzards spells instead of making your own unique ones each time.

It would work.. it would be boring as hell (copy paste city).

Or you just develop the new job in an entirely independent way. The current class system doesn't, in any way, prevent them to develop new jobs in several different ways.

Either with a new class like arcanist/summoner, or attaching them to existing classes, or as entirely independent entities.

The restriction you see is imaginary and self-imposed.

[SkyeWindbinder]

Oh yeah that is possible but then lets imagine that class.

A dark knight but we dont want to make a new class (so lets say we use MRD (more damage-y then GLD)) and we change his weapon too (convoluted but possible). And we make the subjob THM.

He does have ok damage.. he does have spells - but what is he really? He is just a copy paste of other classes with 5 special abilities. He has nothing "themed" into being a dark knight its like if you made Dota in WC3 out of all blizzards spells instead of making your own unique ones each time. Yes sure X hero is assassin like Y hero but he has his own theme and feeling - impossible with this class to modified job system. Perhaps people like that, but I dont.

It would work.. it would be boring as hell less exciting (copy paste city).

Well, not necessarily. I mean, let's say we have blue mage. What if that was a combination of, like, lancer and black mage? Or hell, it could even be set up like alchemist or lancer, who knows what SE would do! I think we have too many classes for it o really become boring and stale, as there are so many possible combinations. In fact, some jobs may even require three classes levelled. That would be kind of crazy though, admittedly. But with as many classes as we have, it can be handled so it desn't become too much of a copy/paste.

[Abriael]

Bleh messing up my game knowldge. I meant PGL all this time, said GLD.. XD

THM + PGL = BLM

That changes nothing. PGL has absolutely nothing to do with the BLM storyline.

Nothing says you cant either. And the ghetto rigging as making certain classes have multiple weapons or making a class JUST for a particular job.

Neither of which is necessary, as Yoshida clearly stated.

You would only lose balance if they didn't balance it themselves. I already said that advance jobs would still be limited to two subjobs and that normal jobs would be the proverbial class. Difference being advance jobs (adv jobs) and classes (jobs) can be better defined as they would be more separate.

Introducing an inane amount of grinding. No thanks.

Has nothing to do with my opinion the job system is crippled for improvement. (Not broken, but crippled).

Only it's not, as the conditions you name for improvement (IE adding new weapons to the same classes or make new classes) are not necessary. New jobs can easily be introduced completely on their own.

There's absolutely nothing that prevents that.