Why not abolish the Class system entirely in favor of Jobs? [@ Devs]

[TheVedis]

The whole "Heals Are For Healer" idea is just crap because if you gonna solo you have to fill all roles in the party if your gonna play alone you got to be tank, healer, support, and DD if not you just have others fill the roles.

lets not forget that a non healer class already has gimped mp, and doesnt heal for as much
its almost as if....they have it equipped as a subjob

which isnt much different from 11, but done in a different fashion

[Khal_Drogo]

The whole "Heals Are For Healer" idea is just crap because if you gonna solo you have to fill all roles in the party if your gonna play alone you got to be tank, healer, support, and DD if not you just have others fill the roles.

I posted this in another thread when someone mentioned something, and it got me thinking about upcoming possibilities. Lemme know what ya'll think...

It just occurred to me that there's a possibility that the jobs may be the only "entities" capable of reaching beyond 50. One of Leeloo's previous posts sparked the idea. If that were the case, it may not be as bad as I thought. I know you guys will hate the comparison, but please try to stay objective.


Think of FFXI. Imagine all that you were able to do at lvl 50. We had close to half of everything in the CoP expansions available to us. We had plenty of NMs we could solo at lvl 50. We could practically roam wherever we wanted to w/ a party of lvl 50s w/o toooo much danger, and so on. So, imagine a much more balanced system like we have in XIV, where lvl 50 means much, much, much more for us than even 75 ever did in XI. It's possible that classes will be set aside for all *current end-game content, and as level caps are introduced, jobs will be the only "entities" capable of breaking past the "lvl 50 plateau." So, then, SE won't be challenged with having to maintain balance 1-50 and beyond every single time a job or new class is introduced. Classes will have their own "content;" and jobs will have their own as well. It'd kind of be like adding the cap increase to lvl 99 w/o completely undermining all of someone's hard work. Jobs will make the class content easier (as a party), because they're a bunch of powered-up versions of the current classes (not to mention they're lvl 55, 75, 99, or w/e else is added l8r), but also the DDs can't "cure themselves," the "BLMs" can't Curaga, and so on -so, they have their "weaknesses," but they also have higher levels and stats to fall back on. Meanwhile, classes will make the content easier by offering much more versatility. And when there is limited availability of players, because they're EXTREMELY diverse (or ppl just wanna solo), they won't have any need to look for parties. Does that sound viable?

[Forbin]

...You're trolling, right?

Archer/Lancer were classes in Final Fantasy Tactics. In addition, Lancers in FFT were just a different name for Dragoons. As for Archers, one of the series most iconic characters (Rosa Farrell) uses a bow and has a special bow attack (Aim). She's a White Mage, but she's also an Archer.

The only one that sticks out is Gladiator, I don't think there's been an FF game with one of those.

I'm speaking of Final Fantasy's that carry a Roman Numeral.. not Tactics or any of the other side games that carry FF.. I don't care if we keep the class system.. i just want final fantasy names.. WHM, RDM, BLM, SMN, RNG, THF, MNK, Viking, Chocobo Knights, BLU, DNC, PUP, etc, etc, et al

[akisato]

I'm speaking of Final Fantasy's that carry a Roman Numeral.. not Tactics or any of the other side games that carry FF.. I don't care if we keep the class system.. i just want final fantasy names.. WHM, RDM, BLM, SMN, RNG, THF, MNK, Viking, Chocobo Knights, BLU, DNC, PUP, etc, etc, et al

LOL, your quite silly. FF12 makes FFT, FFTA, FFTA2, and even Vagrant Story part of the Roman Numeral Final Fantasy stories and isn't that what this is really about?

[akisato]

I posted this in another thread when someone mentioned something, and it got me thinking about upcoming possibilities. Lemme know what ya'll think...


It just occurred to me that there's a possibility that the jobs may be the only "entities" capable of reaching beyond 50. One of Leeloo's previous posts sparked the idea. If that were the case, it may not be as bad as I thought. I know you guys will hate the comparison, but please try to stay objective.


Think of FFXI. Imagine all that you were able to do at lvl 50. We had close to half of everything in the CoP expansions available to us. We had plenty of NMs we could solo at lvl 50. We could practically roam wherever we wanted to w/ a party of lvl 50s w/o toooo much danger, and so on. So, imagine a much more balanced system like we have in XIV, where lvl 50 means much, much, much more for us than even 75 ever did in XI. It's possible that classes will be set aside for all *current end-game content, and as level caps are introduced, jobs will be the only "entities" capable of breaking past the "lvl 50 plateau." So, then, SE won't be challenged with having to maintain balance 1-50 and beyond every single time a job or new class is introduced. Classes will have their own "content;" and jobs will have their own as well. It'd kind of be like adding the cap increase to lvl 99 w/o completely undermining all of someone's hard work. Jobs will make the class content easier (as a party), because they're a bunch of powered-up versions of the current classes (not to mention they're lvl 55, 75, 99, or w/e else is added l8r), but also the DDs can't "cure themselves," the "BLMs" can't Curaga, and so on -so, they have their "weaknesses," but they also have higher levels and stats to fall back on. Meanwhile, classes will make the content easier by offering much more versatility. And when there is limited availability of players, because they're EXTREMELY diverse (or ppl just wanna solo), they won't have any need to look for parties. Does that sound viable?

This is a really good idea.

[Seif]

The balance of classes in MMORPGS RPGS and in most games ever made always follow the exact same principles of some characters tanking, healing, sneaking/stealing, using special skills what have you.

This is the core rule-set upon which Final fantasy JOB system was built. It wasn't the first nor last game to use this system.

Over the years however they have made great progress on gameplay balance with several Final Fantasy titles so we can expect SE CAN pull of balanced gameplay with jobs.

Now CLASSES HOWEVER: If you think for one second classes are something new and unique and sett his game apart from other games you are either delusional or refusing to see the big picture in game design.

Class balancing and differentiation is nowhere near done at this point. They've only just begun in making some sense to why you'd choose one class over another. Almost all of the physical attack classes are just copies of one another when it comes to game mechanics.

I believe that SE can conquer this mountain and hopefully will make the classes different enough to mean something in gameplay. I don't know how long it will take but I hope they won't end working on the job/class/whatever they end up choosing-system until it makes gameplay balanced.


This is where I finally wrap it up with a point and apologize for the long reply. (sorry!)

When this is done Classes WILL be Jobs! They might have a different name they might have different graphics but if you think they are anything else than the same rule-set Final Fantasy and all other RPGs were built on you're just fooling yourself.

In short SE is re-inventing the wheel. When it works it will roll just the same way the old one did but they'll have lost the affection we have for the coat of paint that has been the soul of Final Fantasy games for decades.

[AlphaDragoon]

Yes, there is a gladiator in FF tactics advance:

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/G...ics_Advance%29

Oh, you're right! I thought I might be wrong but couldn't think of the game.

[Rhomagus]

In short SE is re-inventing the wheel. When it works it will roll just the same way the old one did but they'll have lost the affection we have for the coat of paint that has been the soul of Final Fantasy games for decades.

Except their releasing jobs.

/argument

[AJ_Anyia]

Except their releasing jobs.

/argument

Yeah, so in a sense they're just adding another wheel.

[Davorok]

This is a really good idea.

Yes it is a very good idea.

The Main Classes could stay forever at R50 while the Jobs Increase in Level.
But there needs to be at least 2 jobs for each Class, for instance:

Gladiator = Paladin and Warrior. Choose Paladin if you like to tank. Choose Warrior if you want to remain an (Uber) Gladiator.

Pugilist = Monk and Ninja. Choose Monk to remain an UberPug. Choose Ninja to be a Blink Tank.

Marauder = Dark Knight and Samurai. Choose Dark to be a a Dark Arts Tank (Are you sensing a pattern here?). Choose Samurai to be a DD TP SC Scecialist (Skill Chains plz).

Lancer = Dragoon and Templar Knight. Choose Dragoon to summon a Dragon to tank (recast timer not rdy!!!!). Choose Templar Knight to remain a LancerUber (specializes in incapacitation, stun moves and jumping).
or make the Templar Knight the tank and the Dragoon the gymnast. I don't care.

Archer = Ranger and Thief. Choose Ranger to be Legolas. Choose Thief to be Aragon. (Thief can ShadowBind and Stun an enemy, then run up to em and Steal from em...just don't punch em 1st)

Conjurer = White Mage and Summoner. Choose White Mage if you like getting blamed for every PT wipe. Choose Summoner if you want to have Summons...duh...but also some Summons are Light and some are Dark (Scholar anyone?)

Thaumaturge (change the name plz) to Red Mage and Black Mage. Choose Red if you like to Enfeeble. Choose Black if you like to Enfuego http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=enfuego.

Bard needs to be a New Base Class that = Dancer and Puppetmaster.

Elementalist ( New Base Mage Class) = Blue Mage and Beastmaster,

Did I forget any? (Names are temporary and All content is still in developement and therefore subject to change)

Sadly Yoshi already said that you won't level the Jobs but I think that they should re-think this.

Level Base Classes to 50. Level Jobs beyond.

It is new and innovative and could just work (patch 1.20 has been pushed back till Halloween...sorry).