Discussion of uses for crafting treatises

[Amineri]

The idea is a pretty good one at it's foundation, however if it is too complex it could become not only highly difficult to implement, but also off-putting for players. Some form of simplification may be needed.

That is one issue that worries me as well. Trying to balance accessibility (not having things overly complex simply for the sake of complexity) vs adding depth and an 'interesting' level of sophistication to the crafting system.

In part it comes down to the design of the UI, whether or not the dev team can develop a UI that makes the system accessible. I think of something vaguely akin to the tech-tree in the Civilization series, to help players visualize how the various treatises connect together, and which they currently know. Visualization is usually key.

I'll throw a different idea out there.

Posession of treatises offers non-essential enhancing effects on synthesis. For example, having fletchery or Nailcasting training would increase the number arrows or rivets/nails produced. Likewise, hatting or cobbling training may create footwear that can be converted into materia faster. Painting or Inlaying training could make it possible to paint or emboss an emblem of choice on the item produced (ok, so that may be more complicated to implement...).

The idea of having the treatise also unlocking a recepie list is a good one. Perhaps even in the form of a private library in player housing.

I also had thought about non-essential effects, such as the ability to make cosmetic changes to gear. Having one type doesn't have to preclude the other. These could simply be "fun" treatises on the side, or they could be part of a chain leading up to something more substantial.

The only issue I have with having the entire treatise system consist of non-essentials is that it would be viewed by many as "meaningless fluff". It would not have any substantial bearing on gameplay (in the primary form of measure of "affecting combat classes"), and so devoting development resources to something of this nature seems very low-priority.

I also considered treatises that allow a crafter to even create higher quality items. Suppose that after rank 50, only +1 items can be created, unless a crafter learns a treatise that allows for the creation of +2 items. Having learned that, the crafter could then learn a treatise allowing for the creation of +3 items. This could be blanket across all item possible to be made (very powerful, near "must have" ability), or restricted to certain types of items (perhaps overly complex). Perhaps a compromise would be a treatise that enhances the chances of HQ items slightly.

Additional options for treatises would be one that allows the crafter to sign her work, adjust the final stats of items created. There are many, many possibilities, so thank you for bringing this up!

[Amineri]

I love this idea. If I am understanding it correctly, the treatises across all DoH totals 326 just to make weapons? Honestly, I would put that as the total number too high. I like the idea of a long term goal of obtaining alllll of the treatises taking forever - but still being reasonably obtainable. At 326 TOTAL, that would be about 40 per DoH. Seems a little low. Maybe around 50ish being the perfect number? At least as an initial idea. Expand on it every 1-2 years with increase in level cap seems reasonable to me. That gives 1-2 years in which the hard core crafters have the chance to push themselves and max out (if just barely) and the casual players still have few enough to make it worthwhile to specialize in just want the want or need.

I personally am in favor of the "player needs to make choices" school of thought myself, but your philosophy is also a perfectly valid one. I guess it's kind of like the specialization trees in many MMOs (I won't name names). They make you "make a choice" in how to specialize and individualize your character (even if many of the "choice" are illusory). You can't necessarily have it all, and that allows one character to be different from another. In this proposed system, there would not be a "hard" limit in the number of treatises a crafter could acquire -- instead, the limitation would come from the amount of time necessary to learn all of the treatises.

In either case, either variation of the system would (in my opinion) be preferable to the alternative of simply discarding the seeds of the system already in place.

[Amineri]

I don't see what's wrong with the current implementation. Just seems to be another case of people begging SE to make the game simple and give people things for free. Crafting guilds will have no use in 1.19, I'm glad SE are trying so hard to get people out of LL and Gridania. The game needs more people staying in Ul'dah.

In large part, this is simply offering up suggestions for what to do with treatises, given that the dev team has indicated that they are going to remove them from recipes as they stand now. And, personally, I too am somewhat dismayed at the lessening of the craft guilds as a socialization element in FFXIV.

Regarding the system as it stands now, though ...

The current system is somewhat "flat". One a crafter learns spinning training, for example, she can then meet the recommendation for ALL future spinning recipes. Where does the system grow from that point? It's not clear in what direction the current treatise system would grow. I've actually been kicking this idea around in the back of my mind for a few months, and now seemed an appropriate time to bring it up.

[Amineri]

Limitations to treatises as a result of the grand company you chose would sit well with me. I am not looking forward to arbitrary crafting restrictions (Pick one craft! The End.) With enough effort one might still have access to top tier treatises/ recipes for all hand classes but certain paths could be blocked at varying ranks along the way through this.

"Too many" treatises at that point would be fine. Two thirds of grand company related treatises would never be available and whichever were to follow, were those prerequisites for others. That doesnt mean youd only have one third of all existing treatises available but this would do a good job of justifying limitations in mastery.

This is an over simplification but you might find casters gear, be it WVR, TAN, GLD, ARM through an allegience with the adders. Opens up different ways for restrictions to make sense, however it might work out.

One aspect of the "Grand Company Treatises" that I like is that it would allow crafters a way to take pride in being a part of a specific Grand Company. It seems (from the vague information given so far) that this is a goal of the development team. If so, I assume (just a guess on my part) that each Grand Company will offer combat gear that has a distinctive look to it. For example, Bliauds in Limsa Lomina, Wood Wailer Jackets in Gridania, etc. By wearing such distinctive gear, the combat classes will be able to show off their allegiance to a particular Grand Company, as well as identify fellow members.

By allowing crafters to create (in part) this unique gear, it lets the crafters participate in this "Grand Company Community". So, it may not quite be as simple as by crafting class (for example Bliauds would be WVR, but would be in Limsa Lomina, Tricorns would be TNR, but also in Limsa Lominsa), but there is still room to give each GC a "sense of identity", and to let crafters participate in that as well.

Thanks for the comments!

[Amineri]

I've been thinking some more about what the item treatise system might look like (particularly the UI), and the concept I like the most is something akin to the Civilization V technology tree. In particular, researching a tech in CIV V grants the player access to a specific bonus or the ability to manufacture particular units. In the same way, learning a particular treatise would grant the crafter a specific bonus or the ability to create a particular item (or set of items).

Example of the Civ V UI

In particular, it would show you which treatise you had learned (and by clicking / selecting with gamepad you could get more information), which were available, and also show the pathways to learning new treatises, so that players can plan out their character progression (without relying on third party resources).

In the Final Fantasy spirit, perhaps something like the license board from FFXII or the Sphere Grid from FFX would provide an alternative template.