Discussion of uses for crafting treatises

[Amineri]

Background

• Currently, the skill training treatises are purchased from the crafting guilds with guildmarks.
• Currently, some recipes list "recommended training".
• Not having this recommended training apparently increases synthesis failure rate, increases likelihood of instability, and causes worse failures (e.g. 3% progress and 20 dura loss on standard fail instead of 10% progress and 10 dura loss).
• In patch 1.19, treatise requirements are being removed from recipes.

Suggestion
Re-purpose the skill training system into a form of crafter specialization.

The key concepts are listed below:

• Treatises are only utilized at a higher rank range (perhaps rank 40+).
• Treatises would be required in order to attempt certain types of recipes, or to achieve certain types of results.
• Treatises can be purchased using guild marks from the crafting guilds, purchased from the Grand Companies using seals, or available as quest rewards.
• Treatises may require other treatises as a requirement.
• Most treatises can be acquired with 6 to 10 hours of gameplay, spread over a couple of days.
• Hundreds of treatises will be available.

To keep each post readably short, I'll post further details of each point following.

[tymora]

How about a list of all the recipes for that particular treatise as well?
Makes sense no? Teach you how to make the item and how to make it well.

[Amineri]

Treatises would be required in order to attempt certain types of recipes, or to achieve certain types of results.

The goal here is to create a non-intrusive form of specialization. Each treatise grants access to a very specific set of recipes, or to grant a specific ability.

Examples:
Access to a specific recipe or class of recipes

For example, the current treatise "Bowyer Training" could be combined into a generic treatise "Beginning Weapon Training".

• "Beginning Weapon Training" might allow creation of all weapons from rank 41-50.
• At the intermediate level, there could be specializations for each DoW class, such as swords, axes, lances, bows, etc. for ranks 51-60.
• At the next step, "advanced" training might be required for scimitars, gladii, daggers, macuahuitl, etc. for ranks 61-70.
• The next step, perhaps called "expert" training might grant access to a specific 2 or 3 weapons within the category for ranks 71-80.
• At the final stage, "elite" level training would be required for a specific weapon of the highest grade, ranks 81-99.

With the example five levels of weapon specialization, only five treatises need be acquired in order to make a specific weapon at the highest rank. If each treatise requires 2 days to acquire (with perhaps 6 hours of playtime per treatise), then only 10 days of of play would be required to attain this weapon. However, the branching factor of specialization would make it difficult to attain access to EVERY recipe.

• Beginning weapon training : 1 treatise
• Intermediate weapon training : 5 treatises (one for each DoW)
• Advanced weapon training : 4 treatises per DoW ~> 20 treatises in total
• Expert weapon training : 3 treatises per weapon category ~> 60 treatises in total
• Elite weapon training : 4 specific weapons in each weapon subcategory ~> 240 treatises in total

This example would result in a grand total of 326 treatises for DoW weapons. As a result, while it is possible to learn to make some portion of these, in order to learn every single treatise would be time-prohibitive. If a person could learn 1 treatise per day, this would still require 326 days (nearly a year) just to learn to make every DoW weapon in the game.

By extension, armors, jewelry, DoM arms, DoH tools, DoL tools and consumables (food, potions, arrows/throwing weapons, etc) in total could create a large number of possible treatises.

[Amineri]

How about a list of all the recipes for that particular treatise as well?
Makes sense no? Teach you how to make the item and how to make it well.

I think that, going forward, this makes the most sense. If my character has purchased a training manual that teaches her how to create items, then those recipes should be "known", at least for the more advanced levels.

For the lower rank treatise (that cover very large numbers of items), perhaps recipes could be still 'learned' via rewards from guildleves, but would be retrievable from the treatise menu.

For the very low rank items (in this case below 39 ), the simplified recipe system that has been proposed makes such recipes easy to discover. In addition, these recipes will likely be available on the lodestone.

[Amineri]

Treatises can be purchased using guild marks from the crafting guilds, purchased from the Grand Companies using seals, or available as quest rewards.

My reasoning behind this is twofold:

1. Pace the acquisition of advanced treatises, thus allowing crafting specialization and customization, while eliminating the "every crafter can make every item" issue
2. Provide meaningful, achievable rewards for completing guildleves, participating in Grand Company content, and completing quests

As outlined previously, it is not difficult to create a branching treatise structure that results in 1000's of treatises (although this would require a re-work of the UI to support this number of treatises). If a treatise can be learned every day, a sense of meaningful achievement can be maintained for each crafter, as she learns a new ability each day.

The crafting guilds would provide access to training manuals to create commonly used items, while the Grand Companies could provide access to Grand Company specific training manuals that create Grand Company related gear.

The quest system can be utilized to provide certain "keystone" training abilities. For example, to learn a particular "Advanced Sword Training" (e.g. rank 61-70 scimitars), a quest is given by the BSM guild which requires the player to synthesize a certain number of a particular sword from the "Intermediate Sword Training" treatise (e.g. a rank 59 scimitar). Rather then the relatively simple guild quests currently offered, these could offer genuinely difficult syntheses, with the player needing to supply the materials. At the highest levels, a particular "Elite Sword Training" skill book might require the synthesis of a +3 High Quality sword from the precursor "Expert Sword Training" treatise.

The concept here is that some treatises are relatively easy to acquire, while some require a degree of persistence and skill.

[origamikitsune]

I love this idea. If I am understanding it correctly, the treatises across all DoH totals 326 just to make weapons? Honestly, I would put that as the total number too high. I like the idea of a long term goal of obtaining alllll of the treatises taking forever - but still being reasonably obtainable. At 326 TOTAL, that would be about 40 per DoH. Seems a little low. Maybe around 50ish being the perfect number? At least as an initial idea. Expand on it every 1-2 years with increase in level cap seems reasonable to me. That gives 1-2 years in which the hard core crafters have the chance to push themselves and max out (if just barely) and the casual players still have few enough to make it worthwhile to specialize in just want the want or need.

[Catapult]

The idea is a pretty good one at it's foundation, however if it is too complex it could become not only highly difficult to implement, but also off-putting for players. Some form of simplification may be needed.

I'll throw a different idea out there.

Posession of treatises offers non-essential enhancing effects on synthesis. For example, having fletchery or Nailcasting training would increase the number arrows or rivets/nails produced. Likewise, hatting or cobbling training may create footwear that can be converted into materia faster. Painting or Inlaying training could make it possible to paint or emboss an emblem of choice on the item produced (ok, so that may be more complicated to implement...).

The idea of having the treatise also unlocking a recepie list is a good one. Perhaps even in the form of a private library in player housing.

[pilot]

Limitations to treatises as a result of the grand company you chose would sit well with me. I am not looking forward to arbitrary crafting restrictions (Pick one craft! The End.) With enough effort one might still have access to top tier treatises/ recipes for all hand classes but certain paths could be blocked at varying ranks along the way through this.

"Too many" treatises at that point would be fine. Two thirds of grand company related treatises would never be available and whichever were to follow, were those prerequisites for others. That doesnt mean youd only have one third of all existing treatises available but this would do a good job of justifying limitations in mastery.

This is an over simplification but you might find casters gear, be it WVR, TAN, GLD, ARM through an allegience with the adders. Opens up different ways for restrictions to make sense, however it might work out.

[Xenor]

I don't see what's wrong with the current implementation. Just seems to be another case of people begging SE to make the game simple and give people things for free. Crafting guilds will have no use in 1.19, I'm glad SE are trying so hard to get people out of LL and Gridania. The game needs more people staying in Ul'dah.

[Catapult]

I don't see what's wrong with the current implementation. Just seems to be another case of people begging SE to make the game simple and give people things for free. Crafting guilds will have no use in 1.19, I'm glad SE are trying so hard to get people out of LL and Gridania. The game needs more people staying in Ul'dah.

That may be, but we're looking more at what comes next now that this has been announced rather than whinging about the history and immediate implications of the current situation. If treatises are to become "useless" then it would be good to find a use for them.