I'm all for clever localization but please don't just leave out important story.

[Renik]

Except that both of those lines can be interpreted to mean the exact same thing. You assume that in the first he's speaking to Hydaelyn, while it is entirely plausible he's just speaking to himself (something Japanese characters have a tendency to do a lot). Anyone who watches anime or Japanese soaps can attest to that.

You are right, both can be interpreted the same way, but in the English one it's harder to think he's actually talking to Hydaelyn.

Well I, and others, did so... yeah...

Not the others, stop assuming others got the same interpretation, this part of the text have not been discussed in the thread, speak for yourself and don't assume we have to believe you every time you say you got that interpretation without being affected by the Japanese lines, because to this point it seems like you have got too many interpretations, in that case it will only prove how the EN text is not clear even for you.

[Zohar_Lahar]

Yea, you can say that.. after reading the direct JP translation to be able to make that judgement. Without that comparison, drawing that interpretation from the NA text alone becomes....... no. You aren't going to get the same thing out of it. Which is the issue.

Maybe you can't, but some others can by paying attention and thinking it over. Either way, the differences don't seem to be as significant as people are making it out to be.

[Shougun]

Except that both of those lines can be interpreted to mean the exact same thing. You assume that in the first he's speaking to Hydaelyn, while it is entirely plausible he's just speaking to himself (something Japanese characters have a tendency to do a lot). Anyone who watches anime or Japanese soaps can attest to that.

Unless its particularly gifted writing, that stuff drives me crazy. STAPH TALKING TO YOUR-- OH YOU KN OW WHAT "click". Hah, turned you off. Also hate the plot point information dumps, popular to anime as well (not exclusive of course).

Also 'Sormr says hearken to me! Which is to listen, reaffirms he is talking to her.

"Hmph. Trickery is they shield. This frail, ignoble creature is not gifted, but chosen..."
"Hearken to me, Hydaelyn! I remember... and I consent."

So in both versions it is clear he either attempts to or does talk to her. It is also clear they've spoken before and have some sort of agreement or mutual understanding.

[Ellatrix]

Maybe you can't, but some others can by paying attention and thinking it over. Either way, the differences don't seem to be as significant as people are making it out to be.

I'm talking about the entire conversation, not just one particular point. They are quite different.

[Renik]

Also 'Sormr says hearken to me! Which is to listen, reaffirms he is talking to her.

"Hmph. Trickery is they shield. This frail, ignoble creature is not gifted, but chosen..."
"Hearken to me, Hydaelyn! I remember... and I consent."

So in both versions it is clear he either attempts to or does talk to her. It is also clear they've spoken before and have some sort of agreement or mutual understanding.

good point, i also mentioned this.

From Zantitrach post
EN: Hearken to me, Hydaelyn! I remember... and I consent.

In English, he tells Hydaelyn to listen his words, by saying "i remember and i consent" he makes reference to a kind of pact between him and Hydaelyn, and he implies his acceptance of Hydaelyn's decision based on that non-existent (for now at least) pact, in no moment he seems to be listening to Hydaelyn's words.

The problem is the rest of the sentence and the word Hearken itself, Hearken is an archaic form which is more imperative, in this sentence it can be interpreted in both ways, what is not clear is if he is in direct communication with Hydaelyn.

I'm sure you have read some books where the main characters says to the air something like "Hearken my enemy, i'll find you," it doesn't implies direct communication, the JP is not clear as well but the way they "talk" to Hydaelyn differs a lot between the two texts.

[Zohar_Lahar]

I'm talking about the entire conversation, not just one particular point. They are quite different.

I was talking about the entire conversation. Nothing in the transcript of JP wasn't already implied in the EN version. Are people just unable to read between lines or handle subtlety?

[File2ish]

That's a nice strawman there considering I stated nothing of the sort. I stated that seeing the Japanese text will affect recollections of the original and that there was clearly information that was not present in the English text. To claim that I think people 'daft' because they don't want to have to speculate on what the text could mean (where they could potentially be wrong) and that all the information was clearly available to anyone who wasn't 'daft' seems to suggest that you believe yourself superior to everyone else because 'I got it'.

I admit, I posted that on a whim and didn't reread what I wrote. My apologies for coming off like an ass.

You stated reading the Japanese version of the text will affect peoples recollections. I understand that, and agree since it directly states information. I now know the more specific dialogue of the JP version. Had I discerned the information before seeing the translation? Yes, I would say I had for the most part. Would you believe that statement? Probably not.

However, there are many people who have yet to see the Japanese text, and did understand everything without all of the information being explicitly present in that specific conversation.

I didn't even know someone translated the JP version until I saw this thread last night (as I don't frequent Reddit), many more have yet to even learn of it. Yet we came to similar conclusions days before looking at the Japanese version. I do not think myself higher than anyone for coming to those conclusions, nor other people higher for piecing it together. I merely think that the EN version dialogue is fine as is and conveys all the necessary information in a manner befitting of the story.

The way the EN version of the conversation portrays and conveys information versus the JP version is very different. On one hand the information is implied in and after the conversation, on the other it is directly stated. Both convey the information just fine.

And again, not proofreading this one either. Don't have time.

[SummonerSenah]

Wanted to add another .02 to this. Given that Ramuh fought you to test you, there was precedent for Midgardsormr wanting to test you as well, and getting the minion basically spelled that out for me. So while I feel like reading between the lines is a thing that is possible, I also think that some parts of it are lacking or send a message that's different from how the JP version is.


"Thou art powerless to silence us, mortal. Yet thou shalt not live to labor in vain. Thy reprieve is at an end." So this part is very cliche villain speak. "I'm a bad guy and I'm going to do a thing that is bad but it's ok, you won't feel any pain because I'm going to kill you NOW" is how that came off when I played through before I read the JP version.

"Hmph. Trickery is they shield. This frail, ignoble creature is not gifted, but chosen..." Sounds very similar to what Leviathan says when you pop the shield. In other words, a little miffed that you "cheated." The tone of it is just completely different to me than what the JP sentiment is. "This light... You protect him! Hydaelyn, you bestow more power on this one, who already bears the Echo!"

"Hearken to me, Hydaelyn! I remember... and I consent." Remember and consent to what, exactly?

[Almalexia]

The issue is that by seeing the Japanese text, you unconsciously form a type of confirmation bias where you recall things in such a way that it confirms your idea that the English text contains everything the Japanese text did.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we've been discussing whether a player could reasonably arrive at the same or very similar conclusions in the EN text as the JP text. No one is saying they knew it all along to save face or something petty and lazy like that.

Can a person reading the EN script reasonably arrive at the same or similar conclusion as someone reading the JP script? Many of us propose this is the case and at this point we are showing our work. There is enough in-game context before, during and after the encounter with Midgardsormr to characterize him in a consistent way across scripts.

We're not falling back on confirmation bias; it's literary analysis on what's essentially a young adult novel.

[Alberel]

I was talking about the entire conversation. Nothing in the transcript of JP wasn't already implied in the EN version. Are people just unable to read between lines or handle subtlety?

You may want to read the rest of the thread, there have already been multiple posts pointing out things that are never stated OR implied in the EN script. I'm not going to post them yet again... Some of you seem desperate to claim some kind of superiority by saying you understood things which could not be inferred at all from the EN script.