I'm all for clever localization but please don't just leave out important story.

[Illya]

Point taken with the importance of this character. Though many of the past discrepancies in personality we've (my wife plays the Japanese version as that is her native culture) noted have been with the scions... So it's not like those are minor characters either. Y'shtola's personality comes to mind for me here.

Honestly though, the Scions hardly do anything the whole story. Especially Minfilia. It already looks like Middawg is going to be doing a whole lot and many things relating to the expansion may revolve around him, so dramatically changing what he says and does will have a much more dramatic effect on the story than what has been seen so far.

[Delily]

This is the only retort I will reply to.
The Japanese voice and text has been pulled and translated directly here. Additionally, members of the EU community have spoken out about the FN and GR translations and have confirmed that its text and tone matches the Japanese version.

That's 3 languages to 1 in terms for versions of the story. And as it has been said, many times, there is a difference between there argument of preference and the argument of facts. Those who are arguing preference are wasting their breath. They are entitled to their opinion, I don't agree with them, and they seem far more content to insult me, or debunk me than concede that opinions differ and let mine stand.

Nor are they truly explaining their viewpoint in defense of their perspective, they're arguing instead that theirs is more valid cause Koji tried to sell his approved localization. What I am saying is I'm not buying it. I appreciate the idea of having text stylized for each region, but this, in my opinion, goes too far. I draw the line at the altering of character depiction, and have just as much problem with Midgardsormr as I do the Ishgardian House Lord residing in Fort Dragonhead. (If you did not know, other game versions depict him as a pervert.)

If you wish to continue this conversation and defend your preference, to the point where I would be interested in engage. Approach this from a pesonal perspective: Why do you prefer the current style? Why would you prefer a character depicted differently than all the others? What sense of value is added in having a character re-described to the point where it causes a conversational rift with those of our community that are multi-lingual?

I don't find it right that 'Old Sage Midgard' got depicted as an insulting louse with a superiority complex in only one language. I don't think it's fair to have someone ignorant of the different depictions entering a conversation in the international community of this game having an opinion fueled only by the 'stylized' translation of a single Localization team of four. I believe having a united vision of the game serves us better to bring our separate communities together rather than differentiating renditions of said story, especially as some of us still share server space with those of different languages.

This is why I don't approve, and I hope the EN Localization team takes that into consideration.

I'm fine with the fact that you don't like the story. The argument is more over whether or not the the localization is valid. However, to your point, I have no concerns about the fact that Midgardsomr is portrayed differently in the English story than in the Japanese story. It's the same perspective as fairy tales. There is a Cinderella story for every culture there, and while they share the same theme, they are different in how they deliver that theme. It makes them all interesting. I personally prefer the fact that Midgardsomr is not impressed by our power. I like the fact that he knows what's coming, what it's going to cost, and how he's not afraid to stand in front of the WoL, grind her face in the truth saying she's been a pawn along and now she needs to take control is she's going to survive.

[Intaki]

this is the last time i answer to you... you have not only requested for the impossible, you also think that by doing so makes your opinion more valid than mine, when it's obvious that you have no idea about how localization works and how videogame scenarios are written, so please, use google and educate yourself a bit, but stay away from opinion articles made by videogame sites, those are evil.

All I'm asking is that you provide the original material that you assert has been so wrongfully mistranslated. Considering how passionate you appear to be about the matter, I would think this would not prove difficult.

[Krr]

My biggest problem with the Midgarsormr re-write is the matter of intent.

It is one thing to embellish text or localize cultural references or wordplay puns that don't properly translate to English, but I would appreciate if the intent of all original text is present. Without that, the translation feels less like a translation and more like Fernewhales' and the rest of the team's own imagination as to how they think the characters should act rather than how the text in the original game treats them.

That's not only disrespectful to the playerbase's sensibilities (to contend that what we're getting is the actual story,) but it's disrespectful to the authors of the original work. I don't care about S-E's testimonials of JP players who speak English think it's "better" or "more interesting", you can make the text better and more interesting while maintaining its original intent and character.

If you look at the Midgarsormr literal translation and English localization, there are many cases where the 'character' of the text could have been merged with the literal translation without removing the intent of what the original author expressed. There's definitely a lot of room for culling excess fluff text or re-re-re-iterated facts or just making the 'voice' of the character flow better but that's not what happened here.

[Intaki]

but I would appreciate if the intent of all original text is present.

And that would be fine if an original text actually existed.

[Krr]

And that would be fine if an original text actually existed.

The original text is the words written in Japanese literally translated to English. Many people have done this; it has been posted several times in the thread, and I will post it again here.

There is no magical ritual of localization that makes foreign writers or their work cease to exist. Contrary to what most weebs think, the Japanese language is not magical untranslatable moon-jargon that communicates via the beauty of nature and mankind's inner spirit. It's words on paper that sometimes express concepts too complex to fit into a single word in another language.

[Kazumac]

And that remains a criticism of mine as well.

With the Scions, however, their roles were quite divided and split as a larger role. Writing wise, it seems that the bulk importance of a representation is going to be put on Midgardormr's wings, so I feel as if the importance is greater here.

That and the depiction here is very different, as different as a neutral and a highly negative tone can get. If they maintain it, it will change the tone of the expansion itself for the English language. I'm not fond of that concept, speaking as an individual.

I can completely understand that. I'd agree that if it leads to an overall tone change for a story arc it is problematic. Only time will tell though. Hopefully it won't happen and the player responses here to keep the stories consistent will get through to the localization team if they haven't already planned for this. Sadly I liked the English version's tone more... I was sad to see the other versions were different.

[Kayokane]

And that would be fine if an original text actually existed.

There would have to be an original text, after all the collaboration is done the lore masters still have to say done is done and the story is finalized. A master version is made and sent to the localization teams.


I frankly don't care which version is right, based on what I've read of the EN and JP->EN there is little difference beside characterization. Even then Midgardsormr said so little in the EN version that I am possibly just misreading him as a jerk because of his short and concise speech

[EDIT:]

Does anyone have the journal log for that quest in a literal (JP/FR/DE)->EN translation I want to see how the EN Ver. may differ from the other localizations

[Kazumac]

Honestly though, the Scions hardly do anything the whole story. Especially Minfilia. It already looks like Middawg is going to be doing a whole lot and many things relating to the expansion may revolve around him, so dramatically changing what he says and does will have a much more dramatic effect on the story than what has been seen so far.

Minifilia is rather consistently lame between versions . It was mentioned that some of the scions would have more story developed around them in the expansion (or was it a patch...) during the Fan Fest I attended. Discussing their actions while going through the main story with my wife we had some "what the heck are you talking about" moments. So while I agree overall tone wasn't affected but it did hinder discussion.

[Intaki]

The original text is the words written in Japanese literally translated to English. Many people have done this; it has been posted several times in the thread, and I will post it again here.

I can't even remember how many times it's already been said in this thread alone, but allow me to say it once more: there is no master script that is delivered down from on high to the lowly non-JP localization teams. Every language team works together under the supervision of the lore heads in order to create their own scripts, often borrowing ideas from one another. It is a collaborative effort with no original, and with every final product being approved by the highest authorities within the writing division.