Make relics the best weapons 100% time

[Skeith-Adeline]

Uhm, no. No no. There is no skill or coordination required in obtaining the Zodiac weapons. The result should display that.

[FranSeara]

I'm ALL for this. The "No will Raid excuse is B@ll. Not everyone Raids, wants to raid or cares about raiding. Everyone should have a way to get top tier weapons. Not just raiders. With required item levels going up, being able to get a higher tier weapon may become a must for EVERYONE. To think other wise is just "sour grapes".

[Skeith-Adeline]

snip

If you don't raid, then why the heck do you want the most powerful weapons? I never could make any sense of this. To be honest, raiders, SHOULD be the only ones able to obtain top tier items. If you're not going to put in the effort to clear instances that require you to press buttons, then you don't need the most powerful gear. Don't worry, I'll wait.

[Atomnium]

Funny thing is, OP actually found a perfect compromise to both raiders and non-raiders, the idea itself is so smart that a finished relic through raid would be better for a long amount of times before the catch up casuals/midcores get to the same step.
But people are like reading the title OP and then replying, gotta go fast like Sanic! Reading is boring right, it would take at least 20 seconds
Reading is hard, nobody got time for it.

[Ardent_Dawn]

Uhm, no. No no. There is no skill or coordination required in obtaining the Zodiac weapons. The result should display that.

Devil's Advocate here. At what point do you think effort overcomes skill? A skilled player can down new content in a couple of weeks, whereas the effort to finish the relic takes a lot longer than that. As it continues on, this effort will be doubled. However, raiding will always be the same and you'll just get a weapon in a couple of weeks. This is counting Coil, of course, not EX, where you can get a weapon easily within a week that beats out the relic line.

[CYoung187]

Casual is defined by the content you're doing, not by playtime.

If the game had a way to obtain a weapon comparable to the most recent relic stage in a quick way, well, THAT would be problem... ^^

That is your definition.

The problem for me is not raid weapons being better, it is the tomestone weapons being better. Those require next to nothing and if they add it to WoD, there will be another easy way to eclipse the zodiac with much less effort. Sure there may be another upgrade to zodiac, but anyone who is even one step behind will now be beat by someone getting a drop in a casual raid. With all the grind it is very easy to fall a step behind.

[Skeith-Adeline]

Devil's Advocate here. At what point do you think effort overcomes skill? A skilled player can down new content in a couple of weeks, whereas the effort to finish the relic takes a lot longer than that. As it continues on, this effort will be doubled. However, raiding will always be the same and you'll just get a weapon in a couple of weeks. This is counting Coil, of course, not EX, where you can get a weapon easily within a week that beats out the relic line.

You're basing your point around that people are skilled enough to clear those instances that quickly. Top statics =/= common. Also basing if one is lucky enough to have em drop. I have not seen a single damned High Allagan Staff in all of my clears. RNG is just as large as a factor as the Zodiac step.

[Skeith-Adeline]

blahblahblah

You are seriously insinuating that we need the strongest weapons in the game to tackle... primals? I'm hoping you're kidding. There are more than enough other options outside of your fallacious ilvl 80 example to deal with Shiva, which is the latest Extreme primal. I can't understand why you'd bring up ilvl 80 weapons; that literally has no place. You're telling me that you (basing off of your Main Class) need an item at similar base to that of the Dreadwyrm staff, to kill Shiva? You need an ilvl 135 tier weapon to kill shiva, that drops ilvl 110-115 weapons...? You do know that you can easily acquire the Laevateinn, then use that to farm for the Shiva rod, right? I mean, unless you're extremely fetid at the game, then sure, you might need a dreadwyrm staff to compete with other ilvl 110 weapon users but, seriously. (didn't call you bad at the game, using your warped example)

You're not making any progress in defending your point.

[Laerad3993]

Relics should be the best weapons you could use 100% the time, not just 2-3 months every 6 months.

I think that an easy solution would be to make possible to get items to upgrade relics in two ways. Playing endgame(coil or whatever) and/or grinding. So hardcore people can get their relic upgrade earlier than casual ppl. Grinding method should have week cap so its not possible to get relic upgrade on the firsts weeks of the patch.

If this change is applied, I can just blow millions of Gil on runs, since Gil is a cinch to make, even as a casual, and get my Relic even faster than before! There, that is one reason NOT to implement this. Even though I'd do it in a heartbeat if they did. Why waste 2000 hours a year trying to keep up when you can just spend 2 hrs a night and little to no effort finding someone to carry me. /Endsarcasm

[Synestr]

Devil's Advocate here. At what point do you think effort overcomes skill? A skilled player can down new content in a couple of weeks, whereas the effort to finish the relic takes a lot longer than that. As it continues on, this effort will be doubled. However, raiding will always be the same and you'll just get a weapon in a couple of weeks. This is counting Coil, of course, not EX, where you can get a weapon easily within a week that beats out the relic line.

I am not sure I understand what position you are taking here. At first is seems as if you are going for skill, but towards the end you seem to favor effort.

Effort and skill are two different things. No matter how much effort you put forth, if you do not possess the necessary skill, your outcome will be nil.

The Zodiac weapons require NO skill to obtain, just endurance, and commitment to time sink which can be considered effort.

Atma collecting - commitment to time sink - many fates and RNG drops

Animus - endurance and commitment to time sink - Books, fates and more books...

Novus - same as above - lots of monies / SBing, repeated treasure hunts / hunts / duties for currency

Nexus - again same as above - Light farming requires no skill. Argue it as much as you want. At this stage, no skill is involed in getting lights, when it takes 3 mins to burn an ex primal / 5 or less for T4. Skill did not make that happen. Overgearing and zerging did.

Zodiac Braves - yet again, same as above - RNG reliant time sink, monies, and I SUPPOSE...the only skill needed here is DESYNTH and CRAFTING...

End game raids require you to be SKILLED. Without the skill to understand, adapt and overcome obsticals and mechanics, you get no reward. The reward for being skilled is the loot that is dropped, and is most times, best or better than most.

Personally I think that the relic line is in a good place. It doesn't need to be THE best, it is most times, second best depending on patch and content.

I know that those that have spent the time raising their Zodiac weapon do not want that time negated or devalued in any way, because yes; you have spent a lot of time on it. For that you have a really nice weapon.
Those that have their raid weapons, don't want the time they put into obtaining it to be negated either. For your skill and time you get the raid rewards.

I do not have either and could care less either way, I am just happy to have a weapon that will slightly keep up with the rest. That is my choice though. The amount of time it takes to raise the currency to obtain a token weapon is three weeks and a tome is required that some cannot get due to them not raiding. SO there is at least three months of them not having the weapon. Then there is the addition of the tome to "softer" content, let's add another week. SO four weeks to get the token weapon, when all who do Zodiac and raiding have had all that time to have the best and second best weapon. I guess I am just tired of hearing to banter between both.

tl;dr: You choose to raid, you choose to grow a relic, you choose to not. You get the best for what you choose to do. The End