LETTER TO DIRECTOR (Please Read)

[Chione]

A wall for a wall. Here you go.

...BATTLE SYSTEM: TOO FAST-PACED

... In FFXI, players could take a break to eat, work on homework, attend to various small chores, and even go to the bathroom without too much disruption...

Oh my. So you're one of them. The kind of player that usually ended up getting D2'd in our parties... and woe when one of you guys ended up being a party leader. It was such a chore having to disband around and reform while you went afk again.

To be honest, I find the pace of battle in FFXIV too slow. But then, I play jobs in FFXI that require me to be attentive or folks end up KO'd, me first among them.

The problem with the battle system in FFXIV is that its too awkward, not that it's too fast. As a controller player, I find targetting especially is a headache and a half when facing numerous angry critters standing amongst some innocent bystanders. But Auto-attack did alleviate some of the frustration by taking a little of the dysfunction out of the action bar for me. Can't speak for the mousers though.

... A major issue that needs to be addressed is the use of TP... The damage of the weapon skills should be adjusted accordingly to help intensify the tremendous event, when such a hard-earned attack is executed –just as it was in FFXI...

I don't recall every weapon skill in XI being tide-turning, monumental feats of skill. In fact, 90 percent of the weapon skills folks learn in XI get completely ignored.

...Many people quit FFXI thinking FFXIV would bring something new to the table... [FFXI's subjob system] meant players had to thoroughly evaluate each potential sub job for their main job, and decide what aspects of those potential choices were beneficial to them. This helped promote character and job uniqueness.

You must have been playing FFXI in a parallel dimension.

This goes back to the whole weapon thing you mentioned too. The FFXI that I play has nothing to do with a player's own evaluation and opinions on each potential job combination and everything to do with what everyone else thinks is a good combination. It is a prime example of follow-the-leader. And that will never promote uniqueness. As you put it yourself, a DRG/WHM would not find themselves in a party. They'd be told to bring another sub job. Likely the same sub job as every other DD Dragoon. Is this your definition of unique?

And hey, ever tried to wield sword&shield as a red mage in a party? How'd that go for you? :P

In FFXIV... whether you’re a Conjurer, a Thaumertauge, an Archer, or a Pugilist, you almost always have cure spells assigned, abilities from other classes, and perhaps even some “TP-moves” like second wind and "Comrade in Arms" equipped. This means everyone is spamming the same basic attacks, weapon skills, cures, and abilities as any other job, leaving only the "weapon in hand," and "job title" to distinguish what "class" someone is actually using.

Here is the beauty of FFXIV: You decide what you equip and what you don't equip. So now you have the freedom to make your character anyway you chose. If you want to limit yourself to the actions of only 2 classes, so be it. But it seems to me you'd only be willing to do so if everyone else were -required- to do it as well. Damn selfish of you, sir.

This is where anyone claiming the current system does not promote uniqueness just boggles my mind. You would crave the restrictions of FFXI's system over a system that allows you to put anything that you have learned on your action bar, provided you have the AP for it. The action bar is your canvas to make your gladiator completely different from the gladiator standing next to you.

Yet you feel it doesn't promote uniqueness? Perhaps the word doesn't mean what you think it means. :|

It seems your biggest fear is that the guy wearing a spear like you has an identical action bar as well. And yet your solution is that they should adopt a system that would guarantee that to be the case. I fail to see the logic here.

As for the names of nostalgia... Really? Some Final Fantasies had classes all their own, while some borrowed names from previous titles. FFXIV, like FFXI has done both.

ARMOR ISSUES

There should not be ANY exception that allows one job to wear another job’s armor. [In FFXI]... Seeing other characters wearing gear you wanted for yourself... inspired people to abandon their main jobs... and start back from the beginning.

Baloney. Let me list just what is awesome and unique looking about the high level purchase-able gear worn in FFXI.

. . . . .

Yeah. I got nothing. At 78 every DRG, PLD, WAR, DRK and SAM is wearing white and every THF, MNK, BST, RNG, NIN, COR, BLU, PUP and DNC is wearing Pink.

Pink.

As for the AF and unique gear, most of it is quested for or drops from fights. It is the same in FFXIV, with the harder to obtain and unique looking gear being more class restricted. While the easier to obtain gear can be worn by a larger variety of classes.

FFXI, in my opinion, is/was the greatest gaming experience my close friends and I have ever had... When FFXIV was announced, my friends and I were very disappointed. We knew the game would likely mean an end to FFXI... Thus far, FFXIV has failed to reproduce the same sensations that FFXI had evoked in us...

This in spite of SE stating that FFXIV was not going to replace or shut down FFXI... It sounds like you are disappointed by the game not living up to your own false preconceptions instead of the actual design flaws that are there.

And they are there. I find myself dismayed and less than enthused with the state and uncertain direction of the game at the present time. But I don't want or need an FFXI-2 because FFXI is still there and I'm not done playing with it yet.

[Natabant]

I actually say all the time "bring this and that from FFXI" but this time i must say hell no, i dont see any problem with the pace of battle i get bored everytime i tried to play FFXI again, i dont know if you are being sarcastic or something, but what makes you think that bringing back the slow pace of battle will upgrade the game, it is really awesome to have a system where you can go to the bathroom while fighting a mob (im being sarcastic btw) even the Battle regimen was a good way to replace Skillchains.

I remember seeing the video of FFXIV i was excited to see how the mage would enfire the arrow of the archer, in a way its something like that the only thing that in my op. could upgrade the BR's is to make it in a way were you can set the ws you want to use and take that tp from you and let you keep using abbilities and weapon skills, todays game are a lot faster than FFXI is, that doesnt mean you cant do strategy in real time, thats why we have better voice chats now.

I don't know if you read the same thread as I did, but the OP didn't ask for an XI clone, dude:

However, because of the need to spam cures, attacks, abilities, party buffs, and even TP, the auto-attack feature did very little to resolve the enormous issues concerning the battle system -it is too fast-paced. There is very little time to chat, do homework, or even eat -let alone go to the bathroom, while partying. More steps must be taken in order to dramatically reduce the battle pace

That's the last thing he said in the battle system paragraph. You're just like every other person out there: black and white, shitty or perfect, spam or 30 min wait times. OP is right. The game is too fast-paced right now. It doesn't need to be an XI clone, but it needs to be something close to it.

[Khal_Drogo]

A wall for a wall. Here you go.

Actually, Chlone, unlike you, I'm able to stay objective in my evaluations -not just prattle on and on about how *I want things to be, and how *I believe the game should be. I look around at other threads, talk to rl friends that play(ed), talk w/ old friends from XI, consider my own issues with the game, and try to come up with a viable solution. Maybe I got a little over-zealous, and made you think I want an *exact clone of XI, but that's not the truth. And if you had read the post, objectively, maybe you wouldn't have gotten so "wounded" by my proposals; and maybe you wouldn't have interpreted it as some personal vendetta against "creativity" -although, that's the last thing I would call whatever brought XIV into fruition.

And for the record, I hardly ever afk'd. I was THF, RDM, SAM for my mains, so afk'n wasn't exactly smart, and the battle-pace in XI for me on any 3 of those jobs was quite "fast" as well. Again, I tried to evaluate XIV objectively, unlike you. Not everyone, especially the casual players, want to sit there at a screen spamming cures, tp moves and even buffs? Really? You like the idea of spamming Protect and Shell every 4 minutes? If button-smashing is your thing, why don't you go play Pocky and Rocky for Super Nintendo, or hit up the arcades and play Tekken or something.

I don't recall every weapon skill in XI being tide-turning, monumental feats of skill. In fact, 90 percent of the weapon skills folks learn in XI get completely ignored.

Maybe that's because all you can recall is lvl 70+? There were numerous occasions, when I would see parties lvling, and it looked like they were about to wipe, then you'd see some THF SATA+Viper Bite, or something, and then everything was fine -1 Divine Seal+Curaga later, they were back at it.

You must have been playing FFXI in a parallel dimension....The FFXI that I play has nothing to do with a player's own evaluation and opinions on each potential job combination and everything to do with what everyone else thinks is a good combination.... Is this your definition of unique?

Once again, I do not want a clone of XI. I just want it to be used as a template, especially since it *is XI-2, regardless of everyone's denial. Just because you refuse to believe it, doesn't mean it isn't true. If SE had found innovative ways to make "unconventional" sub jobs work, you and I wouldn't even be having this conversation. Unfortunately, they never bothered trying, so, now, ppl like you think, "It can't be done."


H

ere is the beauty of FFXIV: You decide what you equip and what you don't equip. So now you have the freedom to make your character anyway you chose. If you want to limit yourself to the actions of only 2 classes, so be it. But it seems to me you'd only be willing to do so if everyone else were -required- to do it as well. Damn selfish of you, sir.

I think you may be the one in some parallel dimension lol...XIV doesn't allow you to *choose what classes abilities to equip any more than XI allowed party jobs to choose their subs. Do you really think someone is going to allow a "THM" come in their party who doesn't even equip cure (those RDM/BLM or /SMN types)? Or how bout a GLA who thinks he can DD w/ his shitty sword and shield? -I'm not saying it can't be fixed, but it's a much harder fix than just restricting us to 2, or even "3" masteries. Although, I'll admit, it *is selfish of me to ask that they clone the sub job system, but that didn't mean it had to work out the same way: this time around, make war/whm actually viable lol...

This is where anyone claiming the current system does not promote uniqueness just boggles my mind... The action bar is your canvas to make your gladiator completely different from the gladiator standing next to you.

Here's the problem: It's not going to end up being unique. It's going to end up being an even worse system than XI. Everyone is going to have to level EVERY job in order to ever be a GOOD one. So, now, instead of leveling just a handful of "acceptable" sub jobs (drk/blm/smn/whm/nin for RDM subs; or thf/nin/war/dnc/rng for SAM subs, etc.), now you're stuck leveling EVERYTHING. And what do you think that means for the action bar? Every single box will be equipped w/ what everyone else deems "pro." The only thing unique about it is going to be the order you equip them in, and how much better or worse you are than everyone else.

Yet you feel it doesn't promote uniqueness? Perhaps the word doesn't mean what you think it means. :|

Perhaps, you're too short-sighted to see the OBVIOUS problems that this current system is going to bring about, in the very near future? :|

It seems your biggest fear is that the guy wearing a spear like you has an identical action bar as well. And yet your solution is that they should adopt a system that would guarantee that to be the case. I fail to see the logic here.

Again, you fail to see the logic because you have no imagination. By opening up such a wide variety of choices to the players, SE is forcing ppl to lvl a ton of jobs they don't even want to consider. And, what's worse, is that they are going to have to come up with even more complex ways to maintain balance. They couldn't even handle maintaining balance in XI when it was "16 jobs w/ only 2 possible combinations per job." I don't remember hs pre-cal very well, but i think that's 16x16 possible combinations, since only the jobs can be combined (not the individual abilities). I don't even want to try to calculate the number of combinations in XIV. Let's just call it "infinity" lol... Do you really think SE will be able to keep things balanced, with all those possible combinations? The answer is NO. So, every job is going to have a handful of actions that the majority decides on, or they can just go solo for hours and get the same sp per mob as full pt's do -just at a much, much, much slower rate.

As for the names of nostalgia... Really? Some Final Fantasies had classes all their own, while some borrowed names from previous titles. FFXIV, like FFXI has done both.

I dunno what you were talking about here. I was only bringing it up as a way to say that it was a very small "concession" (as if changing the names to what they were in this game's "prequel" was going to make it less obvious that it *is XI-2). Given the enormous amount of problems with the game, that's the LEAST SE could do for us. Change is good, but they changed all the wrong stuff. The basic system and mechanics in XI were an ideal template for XIV, yet SE refused to keep it the same -all because, people like you think that ANYthing linking two games together, no matter how trivial (like job and race names), makes the game boring and unoriginal.

Baloney. Let me list just what is awesome and unique looking about the high level purchase-able gear worn in FFXI.

. . . . .

Yeah. I got nothing. At 78 every DRG, PLD, WAR, DRK and SAM is wearing white and every THF, MNK, BST, RNG, NIN, COR, BLU, PUP and DNC is wearing Pink.

Pink.

You know what I loved most about this statement? You mentioned the lvl: lvl 78. Thank god they at least had to wait til lvl 78. Now, imagine playing the XI from lvl 1-78, and seeing DRG PLD WAR DRK SAM, blah blah blah, wearing white and pink, simply b/c they don't give a shit about the penalties, and they don't feel like buying gear every 10 or so lvls...does that sound like a great idea to you? Maybe you'd like to go back to allowing ppl to train mobs to zones and watch them kill off several different parties? Maybe you'd like to go back to roaming nm's that pop every 36 hours and watch ppl steal a claim from you after being there for 12 minutes (not caring that you've been there for 18 hours)? Maybe you'd like to allow pvp on every server, so a@@holes can run around killing low lvl players' who are just trying to enjoy themselves?

Restrictions are needed because ppl take advantage of "freedom" and ruin other players' gameplay. You may not care that thousands of low lvl ppl are wearing your lvl "78" gear at lvl 4, but plenty of other ppl do, so try to think outside *your box every now and then.

As for the AF and unique gear, most of it is quested for or drops from fights. It is the same in FFXIV, with the harder to obtain and unique looking gear being more class restricted. While the easier to obtain gear can be worn by a larger variety of classes.

So, basically, everyone who can't get help getting amazing gear is stuck looking like some generic douchebag b/c the ppl next to him are to lazy, or too cheap, to buy the conventional low-lvl gear for their job? To quote you: "Damn selfish of you, sir."

This in spite of SE stating that FFXIV was not going to replace or shut down FFXI... It sounds like you are disappointed by the game not living up to your own false preconceptions instead of the actual design flaws that are there...And they are there. I find myself dismayed and less than enthused with the state and uncertain direction of the game at the present time. But I don't want or need an FFXI-2 because FFXI is still there and I'm not done playing with it yet.

And it sounds like you were almost completely satisfied with the game because it managed to live up to YOUR standards; and now that it looks like there's hope that it'll reclaim some of it's former glory, by taking on some of the much more ENJOYABLE aspects of XI's gameplay (it's PREQUEL), you're "less than enthused" -Hmm, what's the word I'm looking for...it's right on the tip of my tongue...Oh ya! hypocrite, that's the one.

[Chione]

A bunch of asinine assumptions about how people play the game sprinkled with personal attacks and embarrassing attempts at insults.

Oh my. Hit a nerve did I? Such hostility.

I'm not going to respond to everything separately again as there's no point. All of your complaints stem from the same general thing; it seems the real root of your problem with XIV is that people can play their characters however they want. And for whatever reason, it just seriously bothers you.

Is it because you assume that with this freedom everyone will play the same way? It just isn't so. To say differently is baseless and arrogant. I already prove your 'everyone will level everything' argument wrong because I'm not going to level jobs I don't feel fit my character. If you don't believe me, check. PUG and ARC remain untouched on Chione.

But even if I'm the only person in this whole game who isn't going to level every job, why does it bother you so badly that you'd rather them bring XI's restrictions into this game?

Why does it bother you so much how other people might or might not play their characters? Why is it any harm to you that you see some rank 5 person in rank 45 gear? What harm to you if the other guy has the same skills learned and equipped as you do? Can you not play the game your way and allow them theirs?

[zaviermhigo]

I always thought of XI like this, the actual battle system was not the greatest part about it...it was also the mobs. See as a rdm most of my job was casting paralyze and slow then a dia or a bio (because we were trusted to know that these override, they do stack actually, if you casted a bio let it run, and then cast a dia, once the bio runs out the dia would still be there, so it was an "override" lets say). If I was fighting a various dragon for a quest (companion or drg quest lets say), you would gravity or bind the mob and then nuke away, why? because the mob was vicious up close. They have no intention of really changing the mobs in this game, a duck is a duck is a duck right khal (love hick sayings, i'm from the west coast), well in this game the mobs are just lame, and they aren't willing to change the mobs in order to make the battle system work.

tldr version: since day once, mobs have been to week, and they haven't ever thought "let us beef up mobs and take away ridiculous attacks they have so that battles will last longer and people cant get a true taste of our battle system". All the spells we need are there, but the mobs don't last quick enough to typically use them.


example: most mobs perish within 30 secs, fight an nm or a peiste or some sort of high level mob and you can actually use most of your abilities, and the battle sytem then seems fun or even great sometimes. The problem is the mobs that take a long time to kill aren't efficient ways of doing anything usually so its just a "masochist" who goes and says "i'm gonna fight this tough because its more fun" If most mobs lasted longer and gave more sp I think most people wouldn't even be complaining about the battle system.

[Khal_Drogo]

Oh my. Hit a nerve did I? Such hostility.

lol, this coming from the person who, practically, spit in my face with every pound to the keyboard. Need examples of the condescending, dismissive, patronizing, presumptuous instances? Ok, if you insist:

Well, lets start with the opening. Here's how you summed up my entire rebuttal:

A bunch of asinine assumptions about how people play the game sprinkled with personal attacks and embarrassing attempts at insults.

Let's take a look at your initial response to my friendly, generic post.

Assumptions:

Oh my. So you're one of them. The kind of player that usually ended up getting D2'd in our parties... and woe when one of you guys ended up being a party leader. It was such a chore having to disband around and reform while you went afk again.

It seems your biggest fear is that the guy wearing a spear like you has an identical action bar as well.

It sounds like you are disappointed by the game not living up to your own false preconceptions

Personal attacks and embarrassing attempts at insults:

Damn selfish of you, sir.

Yet you feel it doesn't promote uniqueness? Perhaps the word doesn't mean what you think it means. :|

You must have been playing FFXI in a parallel dimension.

And yet your solution is that they should adopt a system that would guarantee that to be the case. I fail to see the logic here.

Why are people so hypocritical? There was no need to insult me. I was making fair, objective suggestions, and you dismissed them all because I mentioned the "taboo title," "that of which we do not speak!" ~~~~Final Fantasy XI~~~~

[Chione]

I was making fair, objective suggestions, and you dismissed them all because I mentioned the "taboo title," "that of which we do not speak!" ~~~~Final Fantasy XI~~~~

If that's really why you think I dismissed them, I implore you to read my posts again. There's nothing taboo or wrong with FFXI. I like it very much. That is why I still play it.

[Khal_Drogo]

But even if I'm the only person in this whole game who isn't going to level every job, why does it bother you so badly that you'd rather them bring XI's restrictions into this game?

Why does it bother you so much how other people might or might not play their characters? Why is it any harm to you that you see some rank 5 person in rank 45 gear? What harm to you if the other guy has the same skills learned and equipped as you do? Can you not play the game your way and allow them theirs?

lol, sorry Chione, You set me off again with that opening, and I completely disregarded your, extremely valid, points. Why am I upset about all that? Because it makes the game less fun, not just for me, but for plenty of other ppl as well. I don't see how you could ignore all the points I made. You just talked about how much you hated seeing ppl in the same exact equipment yourself. So, why would you promote a system that allows ppl even more of an opportunity to flood your screen w/ the "best armor available." It's like going to school....everyone is wearing the same uniforms. IT IS BORING. Why is that so hard to understand. It's awful. It sucks. I can't stand it. It makes me want to go back to XI, but I can't because they released this stupid game, and ruined XI by completely undermining the sub job system -go watch the Hitler Videos lol PLZ They're super funny, and they get some of my points across. I'll post the links to the one's that apply.

Hitler Plays XIV Pre-patch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvLppb80xYc


Hitler Learns about FFXI Lvl99 Cap:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCj9hbnGmio

[elreed]

I don't know if you read the same thread as I did, but the OP didn't ask for an XI clone, dude:



That's the last thing he said in the battle system paragraph. You're just like every other person out there: black and white, shitty or perfect, spam or 30 min wait times. OP is right. The game is too fast-paced right now. It doesn't need to be an XI clone, but it needs to be something close to it.

Maybe you didnt play FFXI, if you did you know that what the Op. is asking, is to have a clone of FFXI, everything he says reflects the same restriction FFXI had, its not too fast paced if youre not being able to strategize with more battle speed then is your problem. You have a lot of options of voice chat you can talk at any time to keep strategy of the fights in real time as best as they can be. And whats all about spaming? i dont spam i play archer and i dont spam light shots in fights i actually use different set of skills on rotations and change a few things depending on how the fight evolves, if you kill mobs almost of your same range well maybe theres the problem, but if you actually have tried to kill mobs 20 ranks over you at least you will notice the fight last a lot longer, i play as gladiator too, and find the tanking job to be really great because you are immerse at all times in the fights, i dont want those fights we had in XI that you could actually go to the bathroom and after being back the fight was still going and everything is doing great as if you were there because nobody could use a damn ws or the recast timers for the abbilities were too long, and yes i read the wall of text he just wrote, and i say it again NO.

[Scherwiz]

This thread turned out just as expected.