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  1. #1
    Player
    Mholito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    1,316
    Character
    Mholi'to Lihzeh
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiki_Lockhart View Post
    You only the to translate from original and that is Japanese. I have the audio in japanese and subs in english and I know a little japanese. What I was reading either didn't make sense or was WAY to short when he was talking over 1 or 2 minutes long... that's information lost and I hate when in any format game/anime/manga/serie/movie/etc happens. It is true you can't be too objective and word for word but you can't do 100% literal either because in that case meaning is lost. And that is what happened -_- not only in this speech but in all contents, we lose always some information and lore because of bad/bad choices/trying to make like that dragon way of speech translation.
    And what did he say that wasn't mentioned in the english localization?
    I assume it is something like a scene from the movie "Lost in translation", where a japanese person is speaking for about a minute, while the translator translated it into a short sentence. The reason for the difference there was that the translator cut out a lot of completely needless rambling. In that example, nothing of any importance was actually lost in translation.
    (7)

  2. #2
    Player
    Viridiana's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    3,481
    Character
    Aria Placida
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 88
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiki_Lockhart View Post
    What I was reading either didn't make sense or was WAY to short when he was talking over 1 or 2 minutes long... that's information lost
    Speaking from experience with Korean (which is grammatically identical to Japanese, I'm told), it's entirely possible to take a long, rambling sentence of paragraph length and shorten it to a short sentence or two without losing any information.
    (4)

  3. #3
    Player

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    Dec 2012
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    1,132
    Quote Originally Posted by Karen_Cerfrumos View Post
    While I definitely appreciate the thought that went into characterizing the race of dragons, I can't help but feel that at the end of the day, there's a palpable discrepancy in how the Japanese writing team decided to represent the character of Midgardsormr and how he's written in English, to the point where impression of him as a character I got from looking up the Japanese dialogue is at a stark contrast with the impression English players on this very forum got from him.
    Ah yes. The Japanese should be translated and not localized camp. I disagree completely with this. It's why a good translator usually also needs to be a good writer.

    It's also a pretty reductive way to look at the English localization team. Like they're just simple translation bots and not an actual part of the development team.
    (13)
    Last edited by Gilthas; 01-23-2015 at 04:49 AM.

  4. #4
    Player
    Karen_Cerfrumos's Avatar
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    May 2014
    Posts
    176
    Character
    Rera Kando
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilthas View Post
    Ah yes. The Japanese should be translated and not localized camp. I disagree completely with this. It's why a good translator usually also needs to be a good writer.

    It's also a pretty reductive way to look at the English localization team. Like they're just simple translation bots and not an actual part of the development team.
    Please stop putting words into my mouth. You're valiantly fighting what is obviously incorrect but also none of what I've said.
    Localization is an extralinguistic process that involves adaptation for a different culture. Like, let's use an extreme example, a swastika in Japan would be taken as a buddhist symbol while in Western culture, you'd have to remove that from a game because people will absolutely take you the wrong way. This is localization. Replacing a jokeful reference to a Japanese comic with a jokeful reference to an English comic where appropriate is localization, done to retain the effect in a different cultural setting.
    Localization however is not a carte blanche do just do whatever as every decision must serve some purpose or be questioned.
    And "translation bots", that's rich. Translation, even something as trivial as 1:1 (which does not imply translating words by the way) is a very mind-tasking process. So again, please stop putting words into my mouth.
    I'll admit, I'm not a big fan of fauxpeare writing and certain other alternations (like removal of callouts of Megaflare in Gilgamesh trial and Diamond Dust in Shiva trial, perhaps also considered inappropriate for high fantasy feel?).

    See, fair enough, the translation is done in-house and close to people who come up with original lore. That's great. But the fact remains that the original writers did not consider this setting while writing Midgardsormr's dialogue.
    (7)

  5. #5
    Player
    Spellbinder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    588
    Character
    Chenn Maboroshi
    World
    Tiamat
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Karen_Cerfrumos View Post
    But the fact remains that the original writers did not consider this setting while writing Midgardsormr's dialogue.
    Then maybe, just maybe, instead of lambasting the localization department for their characterization of Midgardsormr, someone should ask why the original writers failed to consider character setting and history they asked him to make?

    You don't just ask someone to create an entire language and stuff it in a drawer to collect dust, and I think it's great that they took the time to incorporate this into the dialogue.
    (12)

  6. #6
    Player
    Karen_Cerfrumos's Avatar
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    May 2014
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    176
    Character
    Rera Kando
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Spellbinder View Post
    Then maybe, just maybe, instead of lambasting the localization department for their characterization of Midgardsormr, someone should ask why the original writers failed to consider character setting and history they asked him to make?

    You don't just ask someone to create an entire language and stuff it in a drawer to collect dust, and I think it's great that they took the time to incorporate this into the dialogue.
    Maybe? I'm not here to point fingers at people.
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player
    PapaSteel's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    249
    Character
    Papa Steel
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Armorer Lv 90
    Wait... Why are you here reading this post and not enjoying Before the Fall!?
    Ferny, this is the LORE NERD forum - we can read and enjoy at the same time!

    I appreciate the insight into how the dravanian language functions. Even if I share Karen's concerns, above, seeing how much thought is poured into such simple and often-forgotten aspects of the game is why I keep playing. Always a pleasure to hear from you!
    (2)

    http://onionfc.com

  8. #8
    Player
    Balipu's Avatar
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    Sep 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    2,084
    Character
    Tea Mysidia
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Rogue Lv 90
    Ohohooo, my linguist degree in the drawer just squeeled in delight. If I manage to learn japanese can I work with you?
    (0)

  9. #9
    Player
    Magis's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    1,253
    Character
    Magis Luagis
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Fernehalwes View Post
    Firstly, I felt that the language would be fairly economical. Thousands of years of refining would render long words short, would eliminate most of the more complex consonants and compound vowels, and would see the complete disappearance of words with little meaning, or meanings that could be represented by similar terms (goodbye thesauruses!).
    So dragonspeak is the Dragon version of Facebook/Messenger speak (YOLO)?

    Uh oh.
    (1)

  10. #10
    Player
    MaethusXion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    905
    Character
    Makoto Edakumi
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Magis View Post
    So dragonspeak is the Dragon version of Facebook/Messenger speak (YOLO)?

    Uh oh.
    Nah, it's like Newspeak from the 1984 novel
    (5)

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