BRD Best in Slot Questions

[logicallysynced]

Assuming the following stat weights (and no party buffs):-

Dex * 1
Crit * 0.339
Det * 0.32
Skill Speed * 0.161


I have calculated the best theoretical BiS gear combination to be the following:-

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/P9SJ
Avg: 1028.138

Dex: 643
Crit: 211.197
Det: 119.04
Skill: 54.901


However since this is best theoretical and requires an absolute perfect rotation, would the following gear set outweigh the above in terms of pure practicality? That is being better overall because it's exceedingly rare to get a perfect rotation during a fight?

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/P9T5
Avg: 1026.504

Dex: 654
Crit: 204.756
Det: 105.28
Skill: 62.468


Would love to hear thoughts and criticism.

[Empty-handed]

yeah right. whos gonna bother with the platinum acc with all those IVs >_>

unless they add new savage

totally not needed for this content.!

[DoubleD]

Wow OP. Nice job with the earrings. I was considering your post unrealistic until I saw you actually had that. Unfortunately I don't really craft or bother with spirit bonding so looks likes I won't be getting those any time soon.

I know the Augmented Gloves and Belt and Boots are really really good, but I am having awful luck rolling for the items that power them up. I need that Dreadwyrm Belt form T10 but can't get the damn thing lol.

I'm gearing for something like this. http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/P9VR
Not the best, but it'll work and save money lol

Actually got lucky and pulled Dreadwyrm bow yesterday so I might go after the WOD chest piece since I won't need as much vit for T13 anymore

[Ooshima]

Your calculations are probably off. First your comparison isn't even fair because you didn't standardize the race!

Dex: 636
Crit: 229.503
Det: 112.96
SS: 54.901

Total: 1033.364

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/P9Y8

I saved it as lalafell for you.

However, for pure practicality, here's an alternate version that requires you to only get a melded head piece:

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/P9Z7

You lose about 5.038

If you are so poor (not saying you, but in general) that you can't even afford the melded head:

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/P9Z9

You lose about 5.669 but you will be 3 points under T13 accuracy. However, BRDs can usually do with a few points under accuracy, no issues.

If you are so poor and yet so anal about everything and will die if you don't meet that 535 accuracy, then:

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/P9ZA

You lose about 8.36

[Kiara]

Thanks Rui. Nice sets.

So besides the crafted Kirimu Body, the 2nd best Body is World of Darkness' BRD Body?

Seems really nice. Just wasn't sure about the weighting (losing that much DEX compared to Dreadwyrm).

[Donjo]

I think there are a couple of issues with these analyses.

First, let's look at the stats themselves. You correctly account for the notion that the "base" amount of Secondary Stat(341 Crit/SS and 202 Det) have no effect in relation to what gear actually adds. However, you failed to do the same with DEX. I suppose the question here is whether or not the base main stat actually affects stats at a rate equal to stats that gear adds. There is certainly less evidence to point to this notion in respect to main stats, but we can reduce VIT to base and note that your max HP is not (VIT * 14.5), which is the formula for all VIT added beyond the base. It might be correct to remove the base DEX too. Also, what about Weapon Damage? It accounts for over half of your effective DEX!

But... this whole notion of effective DEX opens up a whole other can of worms: stat weights are not something we should be using to compare entire gearsets. Purostrider in his BLM thread covers this fairly well, but the jist of it is that stat weights are very fluid and their values at a given moment depend on what the values of the other stats are at a given moment.

In General:

DEX and DET make everything else have a higher weight as they are stacked. This is because they work to directly increase the "base" amount of damage you are doing. Their reliability in this manner is why they're considered to be the best stats for nearly all jobs.

CRT will fall in weight the more it is stacked. To illustrate this, think of the base CRT of 5%. Let's pretend that 50 CRT will raise your CRT by another 5%, doubling your Crit Rate. Since the gain of Crit Rate from stacking CRT is linear, however, you now need to add 100 CRT to yourself to double your Crit Rate again. Each increase of Crit Rate ultimately gives you less of an overall benefit than the previous one.

SS will rise in weight the more it is stacked. Let's pretend that we start with a GCD of 2.00 seconds. 100 SS will reduce your GCD by 1 second, giving you a 1.00 second GCD. This literally doubles your attacks per minute and thus doubles your damage output. However, the gains from SS are linear. To double your speed again, you just need 50 SS. To do it once more, you need 25. This example is grossly overinflated and values in this game will never realize this ability, but it doesn't diminish the truth that each 0.01 decrease in your GCD is more powerful than the last. And, while this does ignore TP consumption, there really isn't any harm in running out of TP a few seconds before everyone else when everyone is going to be running out in the middle of the fight anyway no matter how much they avoid SS.

[FancyP]

Here is the BiS I came up with given the stat weights.

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/PAUN

This gives a total value of:
Dex: 631
Acc: 536
Crit: 232.893
Det: 113.92
SS: 63.595

for a total of 1041.408

However since this is best theoretical and requires an absolute perfect rotation, would the following gear set outweigh the above in terms of pure practicality?

I'm not sure what the OP is talking about when he says "perfect rotation" or why it would be more or less difficult to perform this "optimal rotation" given the gear set.

So besides the crafted Kirimu Body, the 2nd best Body is World of Darkness' BRD Body?

This is correct given that we don't know exactly how primary stats affect the effectiveness of secondary stats

But... this whole notion of effective DEX opens up a whole other can of worms: stat weights are not something we should be using to compare entire gearsets.

Unfortunately I don't believe there has been in-depth testing done to determine the quantitative benefits the primary stats have on secondary stats. Thus people use the stat weights people come up with to determine BiS.

[Ooshima]

snip

Do you actually main a bard? The amount of flaws here in your post.

I have touched on earlier about how one should consider stacking critical hit since it appears to be tier-ed rather than point-by-point linear like determination.

Skill Speed is still a junk stat. No, 100SS doesn't reduce your GCD by 1 second at all. This is where you went completely wrong about SS. You would need an insane amount of skill speed to even down your GCD to 2.00s (which you start at 2.50s) which makes it totally impractical.

Increase in attack speed only meant increase in resource depletion. If you are depleting your resources so fast that it is beyond sustainable, you will find yourself playing Paeon more, at a rate that you need it more than your MNK/NIN/DRG actually needs it, which ultimately you are gimping your own DPS due to the 20% dmg penalty from the song, and also gimping your party DPS because you aren't playing foe requiem wrong.

In any case, I have went back and re-looked into 2.5 BiS and melds, the crafted neck, earring and ring are marginally superior to the i130 versions. With the appropriate melds, you can stack crit to 699

Here's the link to my set:

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/PA5X

[Donjo]

Do you actually main a bard? The amount of flaws here in your post.

I have touched on earlier about how one should consider stacking critical hit since it appears to be tier-ed rather than point-by-point linear like determination.

Skill Speed is still a junk stat. No, 100SS doesn't reduce your GCD by 1 second at all. This is where you went completely wrong about SS. You would need an insane amount of skill speed to even down your GCD to 2.00s (which you start at 2.50s) which makes it totally impractical.

Increase in attack speed only meant increase in resource depletion. If you are depleting your resources so fast that it is beyond sustainable, you will find yourself playing Paeon more, at a rate that you need it more than your MNK/NIN/DRG actually needs it, which ultimately you are gimping your own DPS due to the 20% dmg penalty from the song, and also gimping your party DPS because you aren't playing foe requiem wrong.

In any case, I have went back and re-looked into 2.5 BiS and melds, the crafted neck, earring and ring are marginally superior to the i130 versions. With the appropriate melds, you can stack crit to 699

Here's the link to my set:

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/PA5X

You kind of missed some of the things I said. Let me explain myself.

1. My post was not necessarily about Bards. It was about stats in general and could be applied to any Job. Whether or not I main Bard is irrelevant.

2. All acquired data on Crit Rate that I've been able to find is showing that Crit Rate scales linearly, meaning that each point seems to add the same percentage to your overall rate as the previous one. The only way Tiers would be a thing is if, say, you're stuck at 6% until you have enough points for the linear increases to round up to 7. Of course, if we do want to specifically talk Bard(and to an extent Black Mage) in respect to crit based procs, there could definitely be ranges of crit rate that are most ideal for frequent procs. However, I was just speaking of the base Crit Rate itself in order to keep things neutral to job.

3. I directly stated that my example for Skill Speed was grossly overinflated and numbers would never come close to looking like that in FFXIV. I merely used those very wrong numbers as an example to show that increasing returns exist on the stat.

4. If a battle is long enough for you to run out of resource, you're still going to run out of resource in that fight no matter how little Skill Speed you have. Only ridiculous amounts of Skill Speed will actually create significant unsustainability. Basically, what is the harm of playing Paeon 7-10 seconds early(3-4 GCDs, essentially) if you're going to have to play it anyway? Sure, Skill Speed is still the "weakest" stat and stacking enough to actually benefit from the increasing returns will only help you in places that aren't Coil, but a little bit is not going to kill you. That's all I'm saying. Truth be told, I always cringe when someone calls a secondary stat "junk" or "useless" because they don't really matter that much in the grand scheme of things, so having such strong opinions feeds the delusion that they're vitally important. Sure, there are the "best" secondaries, but any sufficiently skilled player will do more than enough damage no matter what they stack, and it feels like SE deliberately made them have little benefit so that we could choose whatever we want and still succeed.