Ranged DPS dominating Slaughter Mode

[Red_Wolf]

Ok lots of random scattered ideas here. Guess I’ll give you a break down.

Casters are a much bigger threat than melee are. In the Den they changed it to 1Range/1Melee because SMN/BLM or 'SMN/SMN' or BLM/BLM were the most op comp in existence.

I can’t comment on two ranged in wolves’ den. But it’s my understanding BLM’s took a big nerf after wolves’ den was released. And I’d have to imagine that combination was lethal because of CC. Because two melee would just interrupt everything they tried to cast if they played smart and weren’t CC’d.

I love how you only mention kiting melees and act like the range dps doesn't even exist lol. Probably because you can't kite range.

You like to answer your own questions to prove yourself correct huh? I guess you rarely lose those debates with yourself.

But I agree with you and yourself here too. You don’t “kite” range in the den because there is a nice wall to LoS them…

And if you are only kiting no wonder you hate melees, no CCs not even Fluid aura?

Fluid Aura yes… one spell. You already know I’m a WHM, unless you forgot that while responding to me which is entirely possible. As a WHM, my only CC has a 2.5 second cast time. Perhaps you are in the habit of letting your enemy get a 2.5 second cast time off, but most are not. Swiftcast would be a horribly wasted. I’ll need that to heal myself. Surecast is probably going to be interrupted because any melee with half a brain will notice the one cast that actually made it halfway on my cast bar.

Healers don't need Vitality gear to survive LB, just stop being bad. <.<

Hmmm, no. If a melee can’t kill someone with just over 3k health using a LB. Then they aren’t just bad. They are horrible. Unless you are the same person that thinks Benediction is always available and doesn’t have a 5 minute cooldown.

Both Melee and Casters interrupt you, your comments are completely biased.

The first part is correct, but what you are completely missing is that a caster is only going to interrupt me frequently by using sub-optimal spells. Melee just interrupt using their best rotations and do it more often. The summoner’s pet and the instant BLM spell aren’t anything Regen can’t heal through.

And there’s that little thing we talked about before “kiting”. That is when I have to run to avoid getting destroyed. You can’t cast while running either. With a caster I have the options of getting out of his range or LoS’ing him. Both of which allow me to cast.

There’s YOUR bias.

Melees have stuns (short duration), and Fetter Ward (Ninjas,Paladins, and Warriors do not) which last for like 10s and is on a lengthy CD. After Fetter Ward is gone they are easily peeled (meaning Ninja,Paladin,and Warrior are very easily peeled ALL the time).

Casters are the main ones for peeling. AoE Sleep/Bind and Heavy (that destroys melees). Their LB is marked on the ground after 30% of the cast has already started and is long range. Do you know what peeling is?

I’m not sure what you’re getting at here. Are you saying you can only attack after using a stun? Or that you can’t attack and move at the same time? Is that why you are so easily peeled? I would suggest having your free company buy a striking dummy. Practice moving in alternating circles around it while attacking. This will help you.

Regardless, I never argued that melee was better than casters at peeling via CC.

[Houston009]

No but you can interupt and LoS them easily. Find any sort of pillar of wall and eos/regen will outheal any form of damage a blm/smn can dish on you

BLM/SMN deal an extremely high amount of damage, SMN wielding one of the strongest burst in PvP. BLM being very close.

Right because getting good permanently reduce damage taken by 50%

You are implying the LB hits for 7.5k, and those surviving without Vit gear are magically reducing that number by 50%.

casters have casting time, can't attack while moving and cannot interupt when they are being interupted

Casters have insta-cast, which interrupt others' caster, can't be interrupted, and can be used while moving. SMN really only having to cast two spells with cast times (for damage) and having a pet that is pretty much full time damage that also interrupts.

I like how you are completely ignoring gap closer an[d] ranged attack which can be used to interupt casts/heals

Melees can't use gap closers while Bound/Slept, however they can while Heavied allowing them to get one gcd in before going back to getting kited. Also there gap closer isn't always warranted (Shoulder Tackle, Spineshatter Dive, potentially Overwhelm) because they have a stun tied to them, which can be bad when trying to avoid DR. Also, PLDs and WARs don't have gap closers.

The ranged attack melees do get are shorter than Ranges' attack range just so you know. And MNK's only ranged move is their PvP skill, Weapon Throw.

[hallena]

BLM/SMN deal an extremely high amount of damage, SMN wielding one of the strongest burst in PvP. BLM being very close.

When you stand still for a long time. You seem to forgot Blm's burst come from hardcasting everything and summoner's burst come from having all their dots on you. Which take a minimum of 5 second of standing still

You are implying the LB hits for 7.5k, and those surviving without Vit gear are magically reducing that number by 50%.

I was implying a one shot is a one shot. Unless you have adlo/stoneskin on you 24/7 in which case i call bullshit

Casters have insta-cast, which interrupt others' caster, can't be interrupted, and can be used while moving. SMN really only having to cast two spells with cast times (for damage) and having a pet that is pretty much full time damage that also interrupts.

Blm has lolscathe that hit for 250. You're not kill anything with that because regen outheal it
Smn's pet no longer interupt and their dots can be esuna/leech'd for worst case scenario. Forcing them to stand still for another 5 second to deal any form of damage

Melees can't use gap closers while Bound/Slept, however they can while Heavied allowing them to get one gcd in before going back to getting kited. Also there gap closer isn't always warranted (Shoulder Tackle, Spineshatter Dive, potentially Overwhelm) because they have a stun tied to them, which can be bad when trying to avoid DR. Also, PLDs and WARs don't have gap closers.

The ranged attack melees do get are shorter than Ranges' attack range just so you know. And MNK's only ranged move is their PvP skill, Weapon Throw.

You seem to be under the impression Blm and summoner's bound are instan cast.
You also seem to be under the impression melee's don't have heavy or bind or stun,
Paladin may not have a gap closer but they can stun you for 10 seconds

melee's ranged attack do have shorter range but all it mean is the blm or summoner get to cast one spell on you before you go back to being an interupt machine. ninja for exemple has 1 ranged attack, 2 gap closer and one ranged instan cast root which can be reseted on demand. Have fun "kiting" that when it take 2.5 second to deal 650-800 damage

[Zagam]

Not hard to time LBs at the same time on top of CC'd targets, especially with VOIP. Get tons of kills with my co-caster with double lb (at the same time), its totally fair. I don't even have to be close to perform it. SE please keep this totally balanced system.

Not hard to time dps LBs either. In fact its easy to mark healers from a distance, call your number, pop tank LB, dash in/jump stucn LB and boom, healers are dead, blms dont last long w/o healers.


All I see in this thread is a bunch of melee crying they cant afk attack. PVP is the only think that is not scripted in this game and pvp has definitely separated the wheat from the shaft for the dps. Ive seen many bards, tanks, melee dps with rage, just because people cant play thier jobs doesnt mean others should be nerfed. I'm tired of blm getting pvp nerfs because a cry baby drg cant auto win.

[Houston009]

But I agree with you and yourself here too. You don’t “kite” range in the den because there is a nice wall to LoS them…

Running around a pillar or side of the wall interrupts melees too FYI.

Fluid Aura yes… one spell. You already know I’m a WHM, unless you forgot that while responding to me which is entirely possible. As a WHM, my only CC has a 2.5 second cast time. Perhaps you are in the habit of letting your enemy get a 2.5 second cast time off, but most are not. Swiftcast would be a horribly wasted. I’ll need that to heal myself. Surecast is probably going to be interrupted because any melee with half a brain will notice the one cast that actually made it halfway on my cast bar.

Just because you are a WHM does not mean you know everything you have at your disposal. Clearly.

Hmmm, no. If a melee can’t kill someone with just over 3k health using a LB. Then they aren’t just bad. They are horrible. Unless you are the same person that thinks Benediction is always available and doesn’t have a 5 minute cooldown.

So you are complaining that the LB kills you if you are not topped off or nearly topped off? You don't need benediction to heal yourself backup i.e. Animation Lock.

The first part is correct, but what you are completely missing is that a caster is only going to interrupt me frequently by using sub-optimal spells. Melee just interrupt using their best rotations and do it more often. The summoner’s pet and the instant BLM spell aren’t anything Regen can’t heal through.

FL Secure: Understandable to a degree
FL Slaughter: Melee can barely get a rotation in
WD: Regen heals through kiting melee just as easily, i would understand your plea if positionals didn't exist.

I think you just may be having bad experiences, because as a Caster/Healer i rarely have these issues with melees. I literally look at them as minor nuisances when i play as Caster/Healer.

With [ANYONE] I have the options of getting out of his range or LoS’ing him. Both of which allow me to cast.

I’m not sure what you’re getting at here. Are you saying you can only attack after using a stun? Or that you can’t attack and move at the same time? Is that why you are so easily peeled?

I was referring to your comment on peeling, you can't attack or chase if you are bound in place (Sleep/Bind/Stun). Whilst stuck in place you are therefore peeled from your target.

[Houston009]

Not hard to time dps LBs either. In fact its easy to mark healers from a distance, call your number, pop tank LB, dash in/jump stucn LB and boom, healers are dead, blms dont last long w/o healers.


All I see in this thread is a bunch of melee crying they cant afk attack. PVP is the only think that is not scripted in this game and pvp has definitely separated the wheat from the shaft for the dps. Ive seen many bards, tanks, melee dps with rage, just because people cant play thier jobs doesnt mean others should be nerfed. I'm tired of blm getting pvp nerfs because a cry baby drg cant auto win.

I play every aspect of PvP, not just melee.

yes, that is strategy often used to attempt to kill healer but requires much coordination just to try and kill one target. I'm not going to knock on that combination, however Sleep + 2Cometeor = Many Dead (including healers)

EDIT: I feel like i misunderstood what you were saying, still not sure if you quoted my post as if you were agreeing or disagreeing.

[hallena]

Running around a pillar or side of the wall interrupts melees too FYI.

Now you're just being silly.

I think you just may be having bad experiences, because as a Caster/Healer i rarely have these issues with melees. I literally look at them as minor nuisances when i play as Caster/Healer.

Allow me to doubt that. As a blm a dragoon can easily take off 50% of my health during the jump's stun.

Regardless there's no way in even arguing anymore because this entire argument can be TL;DR with The grass is always greener on the other side

[Houston009]

I was implying a one shot is a one shot. Unless you have adlo/stoneskin on you 24/7 in which case i call bullshit

Its not a one-shot.

Blm has lolscathe that hit for 250. You're not kill anything with that because regen outheal it
Smn's pet no longer interupt and their dots can be esuna/leech'd for worst case scenario. Forcing them to stand still for another 5 second to deal any form of damage

I could have sworn you scathed because you wanted to interrupt? I cast Sleep because I wanted people to go to Sleep.
SMN's pet still interrupt, just not every cast. Dots aren't their only source of damage.

You seem to be under the impression Blm and summoner's bound are instan cast.
You also seem to be under the impression melee's don't have heavy or bind or stun,
Paladin may not have a gap closer but they can stun you for 10 seconds

Swiftcast: Tri-diaster, Sleep, Freeze,Blizzard, and Blizzard II( has same cast time as single-target healing spells)
Insta-cast: Nightwing
SMN has a stun, melees(Ninja,Monk,Dragoon) have a heavy on cd, and Ninja and Warrior have bind. One which also locks the caster in place, the other on a shared oGCD.
PLDs can no longer stun for 10s

I feel like you guys are the Adder and Storm on Aether Datacenter, jumping the Flames again ><.

Now you're just being silly.

How so? You are considered out of range the moment someone crosses a wall, its similar to when tanks constantly move mobs and your action cancels mid animation.

Well! i'm glad you showed me the way. Now i know. i can cast one spell per minute with a melee or bard attacking me

We still have Lethargy, also instant like Nightwing. ^^

They were the most op comp in existance because sleep lasted for 30 second, swift flare was insane, Smn could ressurect people, They could spam heavy and their pet would interupt the healer. All of which has been nerfed. Welcome to 2.5 i hope you enjoyed your 2.1 private server

BLM/BLM may not be as strong anymore in 2.5, but SMN/BLM and SMN/SMN would still be pretty OP in comparison. It wasn't just SMNs resurrection/heavy that made them OP. Its their burst and bane. CCs are still strong. Go do WD now, watch SMNs dominate.

[hallena]

Its not a one-shot.

You're right. It only hit for 3.4-3.5k on your 3.7k health pool

swiftcast anything

Well! i'm glad you showed me the way. Now i know. i can cast one spell per minute with a melee or bard attacking me

[Red_Wolf]

stuff...

I am certain I know WHM better than you. Please don't pretend there are magical instant CC's I can just pluck out of the air during FL's. Lying just makes you look worse. My only guess is you are referring to heavy. And since that requires a cast time like repose I think we've covered that.

LB's don't kill me anymore because I wear vit. gear. Once again, your inability to kill someone with a LB is not common amongst melee PvPers in this game. Please don't speak for melee players regarding this.

Most of your comments stem from the fact that you have trouble keeping up with someone kiting you. You can't LoS a melee chasing you unless they aren't really chasing you. I can assure a lot of melee can stay within range and attack while running. Please use the dummy for practice as I suggested.

Until Slaughter, melee was clearly the biggest threat to healers. And since slaughter... melee are still clearly the biggest threat to healers. How are you dying consistently to a caster as a healer? Save your purify when you're focused, otherwise let the other healer cleanse your CC. Try moving out of their AoE (it's the yellow circle on the ground). I honeslty think you are just making stuff up now.