Ranged DPS dominating Slaughter Mode

[Iagainsti]

I'm pretty sure they are ineffective. Ilvl 80 or less stuff may not be, I have no clue.

Reminds me, SE please raise the ilvl sync to atleast i100.

But I love my I80 twinked BLK/MRD sets!

[Red_Wolf]

Get crafted MND accessories, meld Vit onto them. Obviously....

Also point peeps are making is that you are calling out players who play Melee in slaughter with zero experience yourself of what they face (not talknig what experience you have in other games as that is irrelevant).

Melds won't work in Frontlines. Need Vitality on the items to start.

Melee is melee.

[Hyrist]

I can see them coming out with a new map/mode that has a higher ilvl, but Frontlines is easy-entry as far as getting people to PvP, and we need that. I know it would be disappointing that I'd have to gear up in Wolf's Den to even have a chance of attending the large Frontline Fights. But that's just a newbie speaking.

An additional mode, with another map and rule set and higher ilvl. Keep the Frontlines Roulette with better Wolf Mark/PvP Exp rewards to entice people to use it to catch up or get more wolf Marks

[Iskander]

I play a DRG, so any corrections to this would be appreciated.

It seems that the main difference between slaughter and secure is the LB system. I don't believe there is any real difference in skills for the two. In 24 man secure. Most everyone is in the center anyway. Still a lot of sleeps and Fluid Auras. Only thing is, BLMs can't group up and spam cometeors in secure. It means melee have a chance of getting in closer to do real damage. With CDs, its not a cake walk though. BLMs can swiftcast-sleep-sprint. I also believe there is Night Wing (Instant cast AOE sleep). Using those would allow to put to sleep 1-several people to sleep before sprinting away.

Also, casters have Equanimity. It allows casting without interruption. I don't know if it works with LBs though.

As a DRG, yes I dominate in close range, but also suck in ranged. With two skills for sleep, I have to keep 2 skills on my hotbar to compensate for the flow of battle. When one uses sprint, I combine sprint-invigorate to chase without losing. I keep spineshatter for a stun to catch up to them as well. I have Fetter Ward and Purify. The first prevents harmful ailments like sleep from sticking to me. The other removes ailments once. However, casters can still hide behind their alliance team for casting and flee before the fight gets to them in secure. They just don't have cometeors to spam in there so they have to fight a different way.

In slaughter, Cometeor is definitely OP. I've padded up to the center right into a swarm of 5 incoming LBs. The cast timer seems shorter for Cometeor than it is for Raw Destruction, and it seems it builds up faster too. As a melee, I don't have the luxury of hiding behind a wall of tanks and other players to cast from safety. I'm right there in the heat of it all. It means I'm much more susceptible to Tank CCs, WHM binding FA, sleep spells. The two PVP skills I mentioned can't compensate for all that when cometeors are being shot off so frequently. With my LB, I pretty much have to get close. Unless the target is CC'd and stuck there, they can move and flee to interrupt the cast. I'm either stuck waiting for spineshatter, or running in and hoping I can get it off. With the cast timer longer than it is for cometeor, it becomes a hassle trying to use it. Not to mention that I can only hit 1 player while they can hit multiple.

At a distance, casters have the advantage. Attacking from range and ranged CC skills. If I get up close to you, expect a right pounding and lance through your chest. I will catch you once I get close. It's the nature of PVP

However, the only thing broken here is the Cometeor. The cast time is too short for sufficient reaction time, and the frequency is x.x.....everything else is a matter of coordination, using your pvp skills, and not sucking. The caster class itself does not need a nerf, just the individual LB for casters. It is expected since its the first time they are using such a system.

[BigPapaSmurf]

A few things...

Certain Balance Changes will need to accompany many/all of these changes, but they're the right changes for PVP overall IMO.


1) Cast-Interruption needs its own Diminishing Returns.

Say, after 3 spells are interrupted, a caster is immune from Cast-Interruption for 3 seconds (with a 15 second internal cooldown or something).

Playing a Caster just isn't fun when stray arrows keep pegging you. Equanimity & Surecast aren't good enough solutions. And yes, I know how to position properly, to kite melee opponents, & to time my interruption-immunity spells--it's still not that easy.

Ultimately, this change would promote game health & joy--a lot more people would hate PVP less if they didn't feel like they could never get a cast off.


2) Non-Tank Melee DPS need their PVP Gear defensive values increased across the board (Slaughter Mode ONLY).

I actually main MNK/NIN for PVP, I know the struggle. I know to play very opportunistically & weave in & out of combat appropriately. But its still a bit too harsh on us.

If just for Slaughter, this would work wonders.

This too would benefit game health & joy--a lot less people would rage that they can't do anything as a melee (or how they explain they basically just have to sit on the sidelines until they're dead).


3) Certain CC's need even harsher Diminishing Returns.

Looking at you Bind/Sleep. The idea here, and with all of them, is PLAYER FREEDOM. More action, less inaction.


4) the Heliodrome needs to break Sleep.

It currently doesn't which gives BLM comps a huge edge on the Heliodrome.


BONUS OPINION: Ninja needs their Mudra Cast-Timer increased (again, Slaughter Only). 5s before falling off is too harsh when there's so much chain-CC/sleep going about.

[Nyalia]

How do people feel about this topic now that caster LBs have been fixed (or nerfed, however you see it) in the latest hotfix? I haven't had the chance to try PvP yet today.

[Houston009]

BONUS OPINION: Ninja needs their Mudra Cast-Timer increased (again, Slaughter Only). 5s before falling off is too harsh when there's so much chain-CC/sleep going about.

Although I would love for that to happen, people need ways to mitigate/avoid NIN burst, interrupting them mid-ninjutsu cast is a really good way to do so. It's very easy to do on NA/EU servers i.e. mudra lag (JP servers have 0 lag on mudras <.< >.> <.< >.> -.- T^T).

How do people feel about this topic now that caster LBs have been fixed (or nerfed, however you see it) in the latest hotfix? I haven't had the chance to try PvP yet today.

I have not tried either, but if its the same cast time as LB1 in FL Secure it'll allow people to mitigate the damage re-actively (Tank LB, not sure if Tetsudo/Focalization reduces the damage) and make it possible to actually dodge it.

[Saiyakupo]

To sum it all up:
I started out the new slaughter mode playing healer, it was fun.
Then I tried dragoon. It was bad.
So I tried summoner. WAY BETTER. SO FUN. I used my LB at least two times. It's harder to be stupid and mess up as a caster. Plus there's that LB. Even killing only two guys with that can achieve you easy victory. Plus a buff to make it charge faster.

Slaughter mode was neat in theory, but is not even the slightest bit fair in comparison to secure. If squeenix was going for an unbalanced, unfair massacre, instead of a regular massacre? They got it.

I'm going to play secure forever. Cause it's fun.

[Hyrist]

I... don't think I have a dog in this fight.

As a tank, it pretty much feels the same. Run interference, zone off enemies, be a tanky PITA that keeps casters on their toes.


Yeah, the Caster LB is harsh, but nobody complains when smart tank LBs change the outcomes of fights, and they're fairly powerful on their own. The most annoying thing to me is the chain CC keeping me from being in the fight at all. The fact that both of these issues can come from one class, however does seem to be a bit of a balance issue.

However, I had a different idea in mind. Instead of giving a flat nerf to Debuff times and BLM damage. (Maybe a small cast time increase on Cometeor.) Instead, impose a magical resistance buff when under crowd control effects (Bind, Repose, Sleep) to encourage more intelligent use of the skill. This way the crowd of Black Mages can't simply chain sleep/aoes and Limit breaks on each other without hurting their damage output.

Again, just an idea I'd throw into the crowd. Mages are annoying to tackle, but not overcome-able from a tank perspective. They just seem to have an overlapping priority with healers as far as targets to harass. I'm still a blatant newbie at pvp, but my experiences with Mages are usually just as mixed as any other class.

[BigPapaSmurf]

.

I think SE should release a smaller version of the FL map for 8v8v8 instances.

Although I would love for that to happen, people need ways to mitigate/avoid NIN burst, interrupting them mid-ninjutsu cast is a really good way to do so. It's very easy to do on NA/EU servers i.e. mudra lag (JP servers have 0 lag on mudras <.< >.> <.< >.> -.- T^T).

See, the thing is though: it's far too easy to do in Slaughter. I agree, people do need ways but I don't think it'd hurt to up it to 6-8 seconds for *Slaughter Only* (considering the sheer amount of chain-CC).

However, this would be unneeded if they implemented my other suggestions like more severe Diminishing Returns.