Request for an official response to clarify

[Sapphic]

I remain sceptic on both accounts. I still doubt that Shiva litterally did the horizontal tango with a dragon, and as a result am also sceptic on Au Ra being of dravanian origin.

My thoughts exactly. That the phrase laying with a dragon doesn't imply sexual contact but used as another way of saying "Sleeping with the enemy" Which, of course, does not imply actually going to bed with the enemy.

The case of Au Ra. Lets take humans and apes. Way back in time you had (i'm simplifying here) Apes, one branch of them developed differently and over the centuries slowly evolved (in some cases just spend enough time on internet forums, devolved:P) to how we are now A race didnt have sex with a gorilla and make humans :P, plus the other branches went on to become different types of monkeys (gorillas, chimpanzees etc), The same may apply to Dragons and Au Ra, and also Miqo'te.

[Viridiana]

My thoughts exactly. That the phrase laying with a dragon doesn't imply sexual contact but used as another way of saying "Sleeping with the enemy" Which, of course, does not imply actually going to bed with the enemy.

Nah, it's pretty solidly implying she had sex with a dragon. For starters, simply siding with the enemy isn't worth being called a "blessed union." Secondly, you have Minfilia saying "How such a thing could even be possible is quite another question." You don't have to wonder how it's possible to side with the enemy. You have to wonder how things are possible when it involves a giant lizard and a comparatively tiny Elezen woman having intercourse.

Again, though, I'm only saying this is what is *said* in the game, not necessarily what we will find to be true.

[Alice_89th]

Again, though, I'm only saying this is what is *said* in the game, not necessarily what we will find to be true.

That is exactly the point of Minfillia her question, I think. They found an acient religious text that stated Saint Shiva slept with a dragon... and both Minfillia and Alphinaud question the accuracy of the text (in part because it is hard to imagine the physical act, in part because the text isn't exactly an accurate historical one).

I doubt we will ever get a real answer on whether it was literal or metaphorical, though.

[Phyllo]

I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure dragons can turn into human just as human can become dragon, after all we have several enemies who goes from human form to dragon.

Which means that even if the dragon she did it with didn't turned into human, he could had easily turned her into dragon to do it then turn her back.

[Lethorian]

I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure dragons can turn into human just as human can become dragon, after all we have several enemies who goes from human form to dragon.

Which means that even if the dragon she did it with didn't turned into human, he could had easily turned her into dragon to do it then turn her back.

The enemies we have seen, I believe, have been dragonkin in human form. As was stated in a previous post this is simply an illusion. Upon the succesful completion of the ability dragon's blood they assume thier original form and begin using the attacks of other similar dragonkin, but while only attempting to use the ability dragon's blood while in human form. Cases of dragons taking the human form in anything other than an illusion, such as a complete transformation, in order to complete such an act as having sexual relations with an elf, have not been discussed in game and are merely speculation at this time. What has been told to us by Ishguardians so far can very well be nothing more than imbelishments of what actually happened passed down to shame the name of Saint Shiva.

A good example of this in real life would be what is taught to us in the United States versus what is taught to people in North Korea. We are told one version of history, while they are told an extremely different version of the same events.

Ishguardians are extremists in thier own right when it comes to how they deal with dragonkin and those who consort with them. I wouldn't doubt it if they attempted to drag Saint Shiva's name through the mud in order to discredit anything she might have led others to believe. The fact that she was considered a saint tells you how much the people thought of her, so the Ishguardians would have had to deal the lowest of blows and in the eyes of their people, nothing could be lower than sleeping with a dragon. Something so awful in the eyes of the people would soil her legacy for certain.

Now, let's take into consideration what we know about the Ishguardians thus far into the game. We know an Ascian is behind what we can only consider to be a very powerful figurehead. We don't know how long this has been going on for, but we do know Ascians are basically immortal, so it could have been going on for an extremely long time. At the begining of our adventure some of the first words Hydelin says to us are the words "Hear. Feel. Think." We have since then heard these words spoken to us by two beings we would consider enemies, Iceheart/Shiva, and Midgardsormr. At this point in the game we have lost communication with Hydelin (please spell check these names for me), have had her blessing stripped from us, and have been taken under the wing of one of, if not the most, powerful dragons in Eorzea.

I also think Minfilia is skeptical of the Ishguardians and dragonkin as far as where they actually stand, whether it be for good or bad, due to the fact that she knows what happened with Midgardsormr and decided it was best if we kept it from the Ishguardians out of what I am assuming is fear of what the Ishguardians would do if they knew.

Also don't the Ishguardians have a Garlean in their ranks? I don't trust the Ishguardians any further than I could throw them, unless it is into the sea of clouds, and therefore no, I don't think Shiva actually had sex with a dragon.

[Phyllo]

Fair enough, but well, as long as it is not explicitly stated by any npc who actually has knowledge of it that is not out of some legend, it's best to assume ishgardian people just tarnished her name out of hatred regardless of it being true or not.

Or at least that's how I think

And yeah I do remember seeing a garlean behind the pope in a cutscene

[Nialle]

Is the phrase just as ambiguous in the original Japanese, or can we get a better answer as to whether or not she literally slept with a dragon by comparing the JP (or any of the other languages') dialogue with ours?