Measurements for DPS contributions (Please SE...)

[Accolade]

I feel like enmity bar is enough to tell dps so i dislike this idea..

Enmity is not linked to dps, as much as you might think.
If you use the aggro bar as a measurement of dps, you are very much mistaken.

A few people have noted this, but there are a few things to note:
On multiple mobs, how can you use aggro to measure dps if people attack alternate targets.
BRD can pull crazy aggro and often top the aggro bars (hence the need for their native quelling strikes), but check a parser afterwards, and the BRD will be lagging far behind any good dps class/player.
But ultimately you have no idea who is (and good players should be ) using quelling strikes.
If the tank/other dps is bad, you will always top the aggro meter, but can still be very low on dps.

So ya, dont let your aggro bars lead you into believing your a good dps. Most likely the SMN or BLM is kicking your arse, but acting all cool chilling at 5th or so on the aggro list :P

[Deculture]

Ever notice how the people that are dead set against parsers/meters are typically sub-par players? People are dancing around it with their posts trying to be nice, but I'll go ahead and come out and say it. I've been playing MMOs for almost 15 years and this has always been the case no matter what MMO I'm been playing.

Parsers are tools and like any tool, how they are used is completely up to the player. Having access to more information is never a bad thing and don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise - ignorance is not bliss when nearly every endgame raid has some form of a DPS check embedded in it. Honestly, not having addons available across all platforms at the start of ARR's release was SE's greatest mistake as it enabled PC players to have a tremendous advantage for endgame content due to how powerful third party addons like ACT are.

And no, you aren't going to get banned for using ACT if the top three FCs clearing content and releasing videos with full blown ACT plugins and triggers in their videos aren't being banned (in fact, they were mentioned and congratulated by Yoshi in his November letter).

[Buff_Archer]

The reasons we're given for not having a way to see our own DPS in game are really incongruous with what's being requested. If I understand what I'm hearing right, it's something like- "If we give others a way to see their own DPS, then others who can't see that info will somehow make use of this information...." and that's the part that doesn't compute. No matter how you finish that sentence it doesn't matter because people want to see their own numbers in game and that's all their really is to it.

The fact of the matter is, right now people who can't parse DPS numbers (like me, on a PS4) are at a disadvantage to people who can, and that's unfair. Until we have a way to see our own damage numbers in game, players who have the ability can use tools to see their own DPS and our DPS which we ourselves can't see. Most players who are less effective at something than they could be, especially if at a wide margin, would want a way to know that so they can get more output from their time invested. I remember when I was a new level 50 and my rotation was screwed up by a stupid macro I'd been taught to use, and was far less effective without any GCD/off-GCD interweaving. But I didn't really have a way to know that, or even to know how I was doing in relation to others, until I started doing full party instances with my old FC and they were telling me my DPS was really low. There's not a ton you can do with that information when you have no way to gauge where you're at, whether anything you do differently improves things and if so, by how much. And it was frustrating as hell to already be doing the things people were telling you ("You have to make sure you have Straight Shot up, keep two main dot's up if target not almost dead, use Bloodletter procs"- Durrrr really?!?! Cause that's what I was doing.) but you only know you're not hitting a threshold others can see but you can't, you can't experiment with different approaches and know what works best beyond overall impression of how fast things die, and don't know what difference all the stats on the gear you're working for even makes. Luckily someone helped me figure out the problem, and it meant relearning how I timed my instant vs GCD skills, deleting those godawful bard macros that queue GCD skills, maximizing Bloodletter procs, and remapping my controller bar. All for the best but would have been good to know that stuff well before I got to level 50. So I know from firsthand experience there is a lot of frustration and aggravation from people who want to play well and don't have a way to guage and improve their own performance... tryng to solve for that without a DPS meter is like being told "Work smarter, not harder."

I have no idea what my DPS numbers are at now, it's hard to find someone to parse that stuff. During single boss encounters with no adds/dodges to factor in, I'll usually get at least yellow enmity when I'm waiting on quelling strikes to come off cooldown but like others said that doesn't tell me how I'm doing specifically, it's a comparitive gauge that incorporates enmity generation/reduction across the party.

tl;dr Let us see our own DPS numbers please- after all, other people can.

[LunaHoshino]

And if you peep even find someone perform bad dps, just how many of you peep would actually give advice to build a better player?

Personally? I do give advice if I see another DRG who isn't using Heavy Thrust or keeping their Dis/CT/Phl buffs up. The only problem there is that you can't see a player's rotation in a fight-- all you can see are their buffs and the debuffs on the enemy, so if they're keeping those up but otherwise using a suboptimal rotation, there's no way for you to tell this. As people have said, the aggro meter isn't a good judge of DPS either.

In fights with DPS checks, one person doing subpar DPS can cause the entire raid to wipe. I've been in a Ramuh EX fight where, despite having a DRG, a MNK, a NIN, and a BLM for the DPS, we still couldn't meet the DPS check on the adds. Repeatedly, so this wasn't an issue of RNG screwing us over. Everyone had on gear of an appropriate ilvl, meaning that the problem was clearly a matter of someone (or multiple someones) not doing a proper rotation. The party ultimately ended up disbanding because we couldn't tell who was causing the multiple wipes. I honestly fail to see how wasting everyone's time like that is somehow preferable to being able to tell one person "Hey, you aren't performing up to par here" and either give them advice or ask them to leave. There are times and places for practicing-- a kill group is not one of them.

[Viridiana]

The only problem there is that you can't see a player's rotation in a fight-- all you can see are their buffs and the debuffs on the enemy, so if they're keeping those up but otherwise using a suboptimal rotation, there's no way for you to tell this.

Yep. Every time this topic comes up, I go back to two examples. One was a Titan party with an under performing MNK. He seemed to be doing everything fine, and I couldn't figure out what was up. Then I looked at the parser after we disbanded and realized he was finishing every combo with Demolish, clipping it down into uselessness. Then there was a group with an under performing DRG. Realized after the fact that he was never using any oGCD ability.

[Elim]

I don't see any harm in letting people see their own DPS in a "legal" way. Allow people to discuss their numbers with other people if they want to. Make it bannable to harass someone for their numbers.

Although, to be honest, I wish parsers were "legal" and not "hush hush" like on every other MMO I've played. When a healer or a tank makes a mistake it's blatantly obvious and most of the time people point it out. It can be obvious when a DPS makes a mistake, but not all the time. Why should DPS be the only role that's coddled? If you don't want DPS numbers to be important, don't put a DPS check in any boss. Of course...without a DPS check there's really no reason to have DPS. lol

[Steady]

I'm still confused how this is still a thread. I mean, I fully support the idea.. but I made a similar post about scorecards, referencing DCUO as an example, and included how they measure healing out .healing in, damage out, damage in, etc.

I mean.. hell maybe they've hard a change of heart.. but... I'm baffled how I got banned for a week and thread taken down and this is still going.

[Ehayte]

I want to throw my full support behind this - as a PS4 player who is working on T13 as a WAR, its important for me to see my DPS. I know other people can see their own DPS fight after fight after fight, but I'm lucky if someone calls it out for me or I have to annoyingly ask for it after every pull to see if what I did panned out.

It is frustrating, I really really really really really would like a personal DPS meter in game, make it optional, make it only work in coil, whatever. It is HIGH time we get this, though.

[Almalexia]

Arent you starting to judge people yourself? And if you peep even find someone perform bad dps, just how many of you peep would actually give advice to build a better player? All i'm seeing would be.. "You sux... GTFO" *KICKED"

Jokes on you; I'm already judging people.

The only difference is I'll be able to judge with concrete, recorded evidence without having to constantly monitor some NIN 1-2-3ing the same combo, or a MNK using a macro from the flank forever.

Promoting better play is usually met with:
a) "im on skype with my friends and this is just a df, quit beinga tryhard "
b) "plying4fun u elletest"
c) literally nothing, because they don't have a keyboard

I have never had anyone respond with "wow, the numbers become noticeably larger when I Bootshine from the back instead of the side. I will incorporate this technique for the remaining 17 minutes we are together." Or something like that.

[Hyrist]

There is a difference between promoting better play and promoting poor attitudes. Public parsers typically promote the latter.

Just think a moment, the 'average' person is ok, willing to use the tool as intended. That's average. Half the players below that average are going to mistreat it.

That's the Logic Yoshida presented when he said no. He, directly, said no. He's said it twice, on camera. It's not happening people. The energy and momentum spent in arguing could be put to better use for the community, like asking for other quality of life improvements or expanding endgame.

This debate is purely academic. It. is. not. happening. Opinions one way or another are irrelevant.