Measurements for DPS contributions (Please SE...)

[Giantbane]

There is a difference between promoting better play and promoting poor attitudes. Public parsers typically promote the latter.

Just think a moment, the 'average' person is ok, willing to use the tool as intended. That's average. Half the players below that average are going to mistreat it.

That's the Logic Yoshida presented when he said no. He, directly, said no. He's said it twice, on camera. It's not happening people. The energy and momentum spent in arguing could be put to better use for the community, like asking for other quality of life improvements or expanding endgame.

This debate is purely academic. It. is. not. happening. Opinions one way or another are irrelevant.

Having a parser that tells you your own DPS is not public. To my knowledge he has only been asked and said no to parsers that display everyone's performance.

He did say that they were looking into some way of allowing players to judge their own DPS. Not directly in the form of a parser, but perhaps a special training dummy or something along those lines. Although since they already understand there is some merit to knowing and measuring your own DPS performance, they could reconsider adding a parser just for yourself.

[314159265358979323846264338327]

Wanna know the best way to not get kicked from a group for doing poor DPS? Stop being bad and do good DPS (*'-')

[Elusana_Celah]

You can't have a competitive MMORPG with challenging content that require very tight DPS checks sometimes several per fight and NOT have a way for players to measure their own performance. It's bad design. I could care less if it's publicly made known to the whole group or not, I just want to have a way to fine tune my own personal skills as a DPS cuz I am a competitive player and want to be at my best at all jobs that I play.

If you're not a good DPS or a good player, you're going to be booted / insulted / harassed if you try to join difficult content anyways. I'm not trying to sound mean but that's the reality. So I see no real purpose in denying the competitive players the ability to improve their DPS by giving readouts. If just making the readouts personal and not public will satisfy everyone then that's perfectly okay with me.

[silentwindfr]

i will be blunt in a static is the RL jobs to keep in track what people do, it's easy to know when someone is not playing at max or don't follow a decent cycle. all it take it's to level up every jobs (yeah it's long) but it allows to have a better understanding of the game mechanic to see every part of the spectrum.

indeed the person doing this will not be a master of this class, but it will be able to notice when someone is doing shit. do we need a parseer? hell no! people need to learn to play them class and stop to simply think number. if a raid fail a dps check? all the dps need to double check them cycle, not only one, because it's always possible to improve.

people need to communicate more and stop to simply look to number.... it's a mmorpg, not a solo game with people trying to do stuff together. and competitive mmorpg about pve is idiot to a point that it's sad that some people try to get bragging right about "we was the first to do it." "nice and?" if you want competition it's pvp, in pve competition aren't really possible, why? because it's too much rigged from the start, HC will simply be the first, they will spend every day, for 4-5 hours maybe more to do this content... this "competition" is only a way for the HC to braggs.

by the way, why do you think no real competition exist about human against AI? because human can change him way of thinking, not the AI.... it will be nice to see people stop to try to pretend that we can get competition into FF14 for the pve.... it sad and make the gamer look dumb.

[Elusana_Celah]

Umm there does exist human against AI competition lol:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human%E..._chess_matches

Unfortunately there are many players that aren't going to accept accountability for their own failures and without the ability to look at yourself as the one possibly failing, you can never identify what needs to be improved. These players can't be helped nor can they be worked with. If you are personally skilled enough to stare at 4-5 DPS to watch whether or not they are performing proper DPS rotations and attacking at opportune moments, all the more power to you and congratulations because you are way above me in that regards. I can only focus on what I need to focus on to get MY job done. I can identify obvious screw ups like the person who double stacked a meteor in T9, but there's no way I can focus on 4-5 DPS rotations while I'm trying to do my own job.

[Staris]

For people against parser, we already know your bad. We don't need a parser to see it. We joke about it in voice coms already, we just aren't mean enough to berate you.

We already don't group with you. (unless we are selling you primals/coil)
This really changes nothing. (for them)

[Almalexia]

To the folks concerned about parsers leading to bad attitudes or berating players: parsing would illustrate competence just as clearly as incompetence, and everywhere in between.

This is probably a bad example, but consider how commendations are issued. Among complete strangers--and where a non-arbitrary decision is made--the average player in the average DF is very likely to select a tank or healer for commendation by default.

I propose this is because there is no concrete metric or feedback for players to weigh DPS jobs against others. Unless you stare down a certain DPS, you can't accurately judge their execution or competence (and doing so would only distract yourself).

So how can we recognize exceptional DPS on an even playing field? A parser can do just that--you want good players to be recognized, don't you?

[314159265358979323846264338327]

I can understand your frustration Amiantos, but i think the bigger problem is that #1- this MMO is more designed for everyone to be able to play, no matter the skill lvl, age of person, etc.

Except for the fact that it's not, sure. Is there a lot of easy content made to be accessible to a large number of players? Sure. Is there content that only the top players can complete? You better believe it. That's far from the "everyone gets a trophy" people seem to think exists. WoW is the same way, but people who have never done more than leveling will be quick to say otherwise (just like this game).

And #2- you have MMO veterans who are playing that have an expectation of how people are supposed to play mmos because of their experience in other MMO's. There are alot of people playing that this is their first time ever playing an MMO.

MMO vets expect people to read what their abilities do and actually use them. Using them wrong is kind of forgivable. Not using them at all? No excuse, even if its your first time playing a video game in general. You don't need to be a hardcore MMO vet to know that when a move says "additional damage from behind", that you shouldn't hit the mob in the face with it.

Add to that that this is the only one on a console

Wrong.

So i think what needs to happen is that people need to take it easy on what they consider is easy

What is easy is pushing a button and having the next one you need to push light up and flash in your face. People can't even do that though, so, you know...

[LunaHoshino]

You can't have a competitive MMORPG with challenging content that require very tight DPS checks sometimes several per fight and NOT have a way for players to measure their own performance.

This is exactly the issue. How is a group supposed to know why they can't beat a DPS check if people can't look at the individual numbers to even find where the problem is? Obviously everyone in the group thinks they're playing just fine-- no one goes into high-end content with the intent to play badly. That doesn't erase the fact that someone isn't pulling their weight, and unless there's a way to figure out who it is and what the issue is (bad rotation, not using oGCDs/buffs/DoTs, etc.), the group isn't going to be able to improve. I know that as a DPS myself, I'm certainly not watching what the other DPS in a party are doing because I'm busy making sure I'm staying on top of my own rotation. The only thing I can really do is notice that huh, that other DRG is 6th on the aggro table, but that doesn't tell me anything of real use since their aggro could've dropped due to mechanics/them switching targets to an add.

If you know what your own numbers are and know that they're on target for what they should be, you also know that them dipping during a particular fight is going to be the result of fight mechanics rather than your rotation-- that you aren't the problem, in other words. If your numbers are far, far lower than everyone else's, well, there's the issue right there.

[Jamez82]

I mean sure I can see my fire 2 crit for 2400 damage

Wait what?