[dev1016] Systhesis Recipe Revisions

[Amineri]

Sorry, but I fail to see where skill comes in the current craft system. Unless you're referring to the skill of not falling asleep from the tedium.

Economically speaking, I believe eliminating parts might encourage more diversity in the items that are produced for sale, particularly below what someone at rank 50 would be interested in. I think those who are still leveling crafts would love to be able to make a finished product they can actually sell without leveling every craft under the sun to accomplish such a feat. Overall, it's a good, logical move.

As for adding skill to crafting, I would love to see nothing less. The current mini-game is dull and often requires little thought once you've got the basics down. What's needed is diversity in the challenge.

Crafting should be like a chess game. Low rank items should be as simple as a game against a 5 year old challenger. But crafting high rank items should be as challenging as a game against a chess champion. Same game, but vastly different experience, and with an increasing demand for skill the more valuable and complex the crafted item becomes. This is the experience the players should be having, but are not getting.

You are exactly right. The current system of actually making thing has no skill. And I wish that SE would change this. The changes to the recipe system do not improve this situation one iota.

I was hoping to see changes that indicated that "reward for skillful play" was on the horizon for crafters. Instead, it appears that crafting is more firmly headed to a mindless side task.

The current recipes actually make a lot of sense. If you see an item on a player, or on an NPC, if you actually LOOK at the item, you can determine what materials are used to create it. Which parts, what colors, every single part or material used in the recipe is physically reflected in the finished product. This adds depth to the recipe system.

A few factors have diminished this. First, the availability of 3rd party databases with all known recipes has reduced the need to be able to visualize the connection between the materials used and the finished products appearance. Second, the stagnation of recipes as the development team has focussed on rebuilding the combat engine and server architecture. Finally, the itemization of colored items precludes any real creativity when creating items.

To elaborate on the final point, are you aware that when creating a velveteen robe, when creating the velveteen robe front, that the one piece of cotton used (along with the three velveteen) determine the color of the inside trim of the robe, both along the bottom hemline, as well as at the sleeves? If SE had unlocked the coloring system, the knowledge and ability to make such a connection between materials and finished product would actually mean something. Instead, they have gone in the opposite direction. Rewarding less skillful play.

[Nini_Fisher]

The current crafting system is the reason that I keep playing FFXIV. I love creating equipments from ground zero. From collecting mats, making parts to finish product, all of these steps are what make FFXIV's crafting system unique from other game. People who complaint about the crafting system are non crafters, and you dev team listen to non crafters' opinion on crafting system. Don't you guys feel something wrong about this? I know my saying won't change anything, but I'll leave silently as I craft silently.

[AlexNiculaie]

While I am certainly one to support realism in the game, the current synths tend to take it towards an obtuse end. Yes crafting an item, such as a jacket or chainmail, shouldn't be reduced to a two item necessity in order to make. However, the sheer number of recipes that called for a ridiculous amount of minutia is overwhelming. There have been many times that I have been unable to synth even something as basic as low level shoes because no-one had one of the more obscure or limited use parts, nor did anyone have the materials for sale to make the parts.

Most players who craft are not those who do or want to spend hours every day making items. It is insane that making low level items should require such insipid lengths just to gather materials. Now, I would be all for some upper level equipment with rocking stats require such extreme material requirements. It would just make sense that the more useful or powerful an item, the more challenging to procure. Yet, it is completely idiotic for a rank 5 shoe to require 8 different parts, two or three of which are used for nothing else but the shoes.

The only thing I am iffy about is the dyes. I honestly saw nothing wrong with that aspect, well beyond the lack of variety of colors offered.

[Validas]

..Crafting is an entire system that was supposed to provide full fledged jobs...

This latest release of information totally nails down my theory that SE is attempting to eventually move DoH and DoL away from being 'full fledged' jobs.

I predict this decision is due to the developers being unable to fully integrate the usefulness of crafting and gathering players into the main overwhelming threat to Eorzia storyline that they're currently writing. (end game/expansions/etc.)

[DrewW777]

It seems to me that they are changing things to make it easier to craft things early on. I think a valuable compromise would then be to make low level synths very easy with only a few easy to acquire components. Higher level items could then increase complexity, forcing the crafter to acquire rarer/harder to acquire components. Developing this progression based system may be able to satisfy multiple parties.

[Amineri]

Most players who craft are not those who do or want to spend hours every day making items. It is insane that making low level items should require such insipid lengths just to gather materials.

These sir, are opinions, I believe. In your opinion, what are "most players who craft"? Perhaps you feel they are players like you, who appear to have focussed on the combat classes, only taking crafting classes to rank 10? Perhaps players that are primarily combat-oriented, and just want to craft in order to make gear for themselves?

I fail to understand why players that are primarily combat-oriented feel entitled to have the crafting system changed on their behalf. Change the combat system so that players who enjoy combat, enjoy it more. Change the crafting system so that players who enjoy crafting, enjoy it more.

Changing the crafting system to make combat classes happier makes just as much sense as changing the combat system to make the crafting classes happier. That is, none.

P.S. Changing the crafting system to make combat classes happier (at the expense of those who enjoy crafting), does make sense under one assumption : That SE has decided to focus their efforts on only attracting / retaining those players that enjoy said combat classes, and are willing to do so at the expense of those that would enjoy crafting classes. This could well be, and if this is SE's intention, I hope that they will come out and say so, so that I can make an informed choice as a consumer.

[Fated]

They are taking the easy road out with the removal of parts. There are a ton of them in the game and almost every single one is set at a crafting rank that is at least 10 higher than it should be. Instead of going into the data and realigning them, they simply chose to get rid of them. They've done this same crap before, too. I can understand if they are going for the quick fix now and plan to do more changes in the future, but somehow I doubt that.

Same can be said with removal of sub crafts. The problem with this concept was that some crafts required way too many of them and at too high levels (Armorer, I'm looking at you). It should not be removed completely though, but at least they claim they have plans for this in the future.

Not requiring facilities seems kind of pointless now, 1.19 is supposed to bring in airships to make city travel very easy, the whole point of facilities being annoying was that it cost us Anima to get higher than common support.

I really hope that this is not the end of the adjustments they have planned for crafting for 1.19 (I'm not talking about the materia system, that is not an adjustment, that is a new system). The crafting mini game needs A LOT more work than any other facet of the entire system.

[Amineri]

It seems to me that they are changing things to make it easier to craft things early on. I think a valuable compromise would then be to make low level synths very easy with only a few easy to acquire components. Higher level items could then increase complexity, forcing the crafter to acquire rarer/harder to acquire components. Developing this progression based system may be able to satisfy multiple parties.

I can only hope that this is so. However, the following quote from their post indicates that this is not the case: "In addressing this issue, as a general rule, new recipes will no longer consist of parts."

They did not say : "Low level synths will no longer consist of parts, with increasing complexity as class rank increases." This, to me, indicates that this is the general course.

[AlexNiculaie]

Higher level items could then increase complexity, forcing the crafter to acquire rarer/harder to acquire components. Developing this progression based system may be able to satisfy multiple parties.

Exactly. Low level, generic items should not be complicated to make. The more specialized the item, the more complex the requirements.

I predict this decision is due to the developers being unable to fully integrate the usefulness of crafting and gathering players into the main overwhelming threat to Eorzia storyline that they're currently writing. (end game/expansions/etc.)

And lets face it, to a degree, allowing DoH and DoL jobs to participate in the main storylines is probably why they are so lacking in interactive content. Yes there is Parley, but that's a bit lacking in satisfaction. It was a great idea, just not one in which was workable in the manner they provided. Now, if they made those jobs truly combat capable (as they should have done to an extent), it could have. Imaging if Weavers could wield various types of shears and needles, or butcher knives and skillets for Cooks. Miners use pickaxes and sledgehammers, why aren't they able to attack with those?

[Ashgarth]

Crafters and Gatherers as full jobs is just one of the many many many many many things Tanaka said without actually thinking of how he would do it.

As of now I cant craft for more than an hour without falling asleep. I find it weird to see so many crafters complaing about the changes while every single crafting guide I've seen recomends you to watch TV or download a movie.
When the majority of the playerbase has to find something to entertain themselves while playing a videogame there's something terribly wrong with that videogame.