[dev1016] Systhesis Recipe Revisions

[AndrewN]

I have been in two minds about a number of changes to FFXIV over the last few months, but these changes seem to be really poorly thought out. I like the current crafting system, it is suitably complex, requires a bit of effort and most impotently makes sense.

In the current system, when you make a piece of body armour, you make the breastplate, the backplate and then assemble the bits together. Its (roughly) how it would be done in real life and you can see the bits on your character when you put it on. The new method is just to throw a bunch of random mats into a heap and hope.

I agree that the sub assemblies should be at a similar rank to the final assembly, but removing them completely is not the way to go. Yes, change the rank requirements, yes, make the sub assemblies a bit simpler if you must, but don't remove them completely. I am also not completely happy about the removal of the secondary skill requirements. As far as I can tell most of them made some kind of sense with regards to the materials used.

The other changes listed, if I am understanding them correctly, also seem to be a step backwards.

In my opinion, one of the distinguishing features of FFXIV was the crafting system. It was what made the game different from the rest and gave those of us who like crafting a challenge. To make something we had to get all the materials and then expend a bit of effort to actually complete it. After these changes it is just like everything else, bland and uninteresting, if we are going this way you may as well remove the crafting mini game as well and make it just get mats and press a button and let the RNG do all the work. All the other MMO's out there do it this way and we don't want XIV to be different.

Also, if anyone decides to reply, don't give me the 'old recipes will remain', that doesn't answer my problems. They will be phased out after a while and everyone will use the simple recipes.

I like XIV, I have played it nearly every day since release. Please keep the current crafting system. Let us work for our rewards, some people like to do this.

[LuciBlack]

Agree with OP...

You can also find another thread about this here.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ting-Dumb-down

[Esk]

Agree with OP...

You can also find another thread about this here.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ting-Dumb-down

lol wow i got linked

But @ OP much more elegantly put, I just went for /mad lol.

[Mjollnir]

Agree with the OP. It is a crying shame that this detailed, well-designed element is being trashed in favour of a simpler version.

Don't get me wrong, crafting needed an overhaul, but only as far as changing some of the parts recipes' level requirements. It was frustrating gathering and crafting 90% of the items to make a tool or piece of armour for your level, only to find that 10% of the ingredients could only be crafted at +20 levels. I presume this was designed this way to increase trade and encourage building friendships with higher level crafters, but in practise it was irritating.

If the team are insistent on following other 'more successful' MMORPGs' crafting routes then at least I can look forward to the possibility that I can mass-craft these 297 Cotton Bolls I've got hanging round...

[Amineri]

I agree 100% with the OP.

I am not at all defending the current crafting system as it stands now, nor trying to justify that no changes are needed. Certainly changes are needed in the crafting system. For the most part, the act of ranking up a craft simply isn't fun. I fail to see how these changes AT ALL change the crafting system to make it more fun for crafters.

Instead, these proposed changes simply eliminate all depth or complexity from crafting, but leave the same old mechanics of leveling a craft in place. They seem designed not to enhance gameplay for crafters at all. Instead, they seem designed to enhance gameplay for the combat classes - by giving them easier access to "cool" gear.

I'm going to reference back to Matsui-san's treatise on the battle mechanics reform:

Creating a battle system that fosters skillful play.

These proposed crafting changes appear to promote the exact opposite for crafting. Instead of a complex, engaging system, we will have a shallow system that exists simply as a side-line in order to create gear for the "favored system" : battle classes.

I admit that not all of the detail are in. The materia system has not been explained in any detail, nor the system where gear is customized for particular classes (as reflected by the color). However, the changes proposed here seem a drastic step backwards.

I am also sure that a great number of players will approve of these changes. These are primarily (I believe) the players who do not like crafting, nor being part of a persistent online world that consists of many facets. They are the players that favor combat, and simply want their "cool loot". This is fine, I hold nothing against people that like combat-type play. I, however, have no desire to neuter the combat system in order to cater to the crafting system, and would hope that people would show me the same respect.

In the end, it is the development team that makes the final call on this. They decide whether or not they believe this will be good for the game overall (in the only way that matters : paying subscribers). I believe it will ultimately make the game shallower. This leads to an ever-increasing spiral as the people who like depth in a game leave, to be replaced by those feel no attachment nor involvement with the game-world. This leads to ever more shallow content in order to satisfy these customers.

[AmyRae]

These proposed crafting changes appear to promote the exact opposite for crafting. Instead of a complex, engaging system, we will have a shallow system that exists simply as a side-line in order to create gear for the "favored system" : battle classes.

Sorry, but I fail to see where skill comes in the current craft system. Unless you're referring to the skill of not falling asleep from the tedium.

Economically speaking, I believe eliminating parts might encourage more diversity in the items that are produced for sale, particularly below what someone at rank 50 would be interested in. I think those who are still leveling crafts would love to be able to make a finished product they can actually sell without leveling every craft under the sun to accomplish such a feat. Overall, it's a good, logical move.

As for adding skill to crafting, I would love to see nothing less. The current mini-game is dull and often requires little thought once you've got the basics down. What's needed is diversity in the challenge.

Crafting should be like a chess game. Low rank items should be as simple as a game against a 5 year old challenger. But crafting high rank items should be as challenging as a game against a chess champion. Same game, but vastly different experience, and with an increasing demand for skill the more valuable and complex the crafted item becomes. This is the experience the players should be having, but are not getting.

[Amineri]

Sorry, but I fail to see where skill comes in the current craft system. Unless you're referring to the skill of not falling asleep from the tedium.

Economically speaking, I believe eliminating parts might encourage more diversity in the items that are produced for sale, particularly below what someone at rank 50 would be interested in. I think those who are still leveling crafts would love to be able to make a finished product they can actually sell without leveling every craft under the sun to accomplish such a feat. Overall, it's a good, logical move.

As for adding skill to crafting, I would love to see nothing less. The current mini-game is dull and often requires little thought once you've got the basics down. What's needed is diversity in the challenge.

Crafting should be like a chess game. Low rank items should be as simple as a game against a 5 year old challenger. But crafting high rank items should be as challenging as a game against a chess champion. Same game, but vastly different experience, and with an increasing demand for skill the more valuable and complex the crafted item becomes. This is the experience the players should be having, but are not getting.

You are exactly right. The current system of actually making thing has no skill. And I wish that SE would change this. The changes to the recipe system do not improve this situation one iota.

I was hoping to see changes that indicated that "reward for skillful play" was on the horizon for crafters. Instead, it appears that crafting is more firmly headed to a mindless side task.

The current recipes actually make a lot of sense. If you see an item on a player, or on an NPC, if you actually LOOK at the item, you can determine what materials are used to create it. Which parts, what colors, every single part or material used in the recipe is physically reflected in the finished product. This adds depth to the recipe system.

A few factors have diminished this. First, the availability of 3rd party databases with all known recipes has reduced the need to be able to visualize the connection between the materials used and the finished products appearance. Second, the stagnation of recipes as the development team has focussed on rebuilding the combat engine and server architecture. Finally, the itemization of colored items precludes any real creativity when creating items.

To elaborate on the final point, are you aware that when creating a velveteen robe, when creating the velveteen robe front, that the one piece of cotton used (along with the three velveteen) determine the color of the inside trim of the robe, both along the bottom hemline, as well as at the sleeves? If SE had unlocked the coloring system, the knowledge and ability to make such a connection between materials and finished product would actually mean something. Instead, they have gone in the opposite direction. Rewarding less skillful play.

[Mikita]

I just replied in the other thread, but this one has the Dev tag on it, so I'd like to re-iterate a few things here.


Dear Final Fantasy XIV dev team,

Not everyone hates the current crafting system.
Complaints are voiced loudly online while people who are satisfied tend to remain quiet.

Yoshi P admitted that you may have gone overboard on the MP changes to DoM classes.
... I pray that you don't make such a drastic over-reactive mistake with the crafting system next.

MP costs are easily adjusted if you feel that they are now too high.
Crafting is an entire system that was supposed to provide full fledged jobs. If you break that system, you won't be able to repair it so easily in 1.19a.

Please consider your actions very carefully before committing to them.

[Validas]

..Crafting is an entire system that was supposed to provide full fledged jobs...

This latest release of information totally nails down my theory that SE is attempting to eventually move DoH and DoL away from being 'full fledged' jobs.

I predict this decision is due to the developers being unable to fully integrate the usefulness of crafting and gathering players into the main overwhelming threat to Eorzia storyline that they're currently writing. (end game/expansions/etc.)

[Lavie]

Agree too.
I really disagree with remove all crafted armor and weapon parts (I don't know hows implemented recipes for cooking) I think that crafting items stage-by-stage much more interesting, logical and realistic. I also appreciate that system of crafting for otherness with other MMO. Please listen us.
P.S. as an exception I'll admit possibility simplistic craft for simplistic items.
p.p.s. sorry for I knows English not a good.