Gamer Retention: what does FF14 really need?

[Winterclaw]

I was reading a MMORPG article and the guy writing it said that very few MMOs were good at retaining gamers. Yeah you might sell 1 million boxes, but at the end of the year, if you are only left with 100k subs or less, your game is in trouble.

So first, lemme ask an honest question: how many people are still playing this game because it is currently free to play? If half of the people playing now (a random number I pulled out of the air) quit if it were to go P2P today, what would that say about the state of the game?

Right now there's a lot of hysteria over the at least partly needed changes to the crafting system. (Yeay for dying not being needed first.) So lets say that the system doesn't change. What happens when a new P2P customer comes in, says the crafting system is boring, repetitive, takes too long to make anything, and it is a reason for him leaving? Not good for SE is it? Right now crafting isn't fun. At all. So it needs some real work for people to enjoy it.

Some people were anti-autoattack when it came out. I think there were some screw ups when it came out (some of the buffs that only last one attack should probably only work on WS so they aren't wasted), but overall I think it was a needed change over the stamina system and having to constantly click the same bloody button over and over and over and over and over and... you get the point.

Unless Squenix comes out and says they are going cash shop only or has some hybrid F2P/P2P model that's becoming more popular, it should be clear that they are going P2P. That means they need to get this game into some sort of shape where people will keep playing the game (see the vid in the link, esp if you are a squenix person lurking the forums).

So I think we as players need to work with the devs on some level. Yes there are things we like and things we need in the game if we are going to keep playing, but that's true for everyone. So we as fans need to think of how the game can change for the better so the current people will keep playing when it goes P2P, but also the new people that come in will want to stay.

I mean do we really want a FF game where 2 of the 3 cities are pretty much ghost towns or not being able to finish the summer event because you are the only person around and there's 3 mobs that are 17 levels attacking the bomb and hostile mobs 8 levels over you in the area. That's not fun.

I mean go to Uldah... it's populated but when I go into it, no one is talking except the occasional looking for party spam or someone screaming about his mannipples. It's like there's no social aspects at all. At least if you don't have a LS (which I do not). It gets kinda boring. And lonely.

If I were to honestly describe any MMO as boring and lonely how many people would line up to say I got to pay $15 a month for that? Save for a few types that are soon parted from there money, not many. Maybe just a few hardcore fans. While that might be tolerable for those fans, it isn't good for gaming in general nor that game in specific.


So what does FF14 really need?

I think that ease of communications is a must (and some LS management changes) so even a full town isn't silent. If that means normal talk range applies to a whole town (add whisper for short range convs) then do it. Something to bring people into the other two towns is needed. Replacing the market wards with EVE style markets might be good (essential if you want to have anything like the current crafting system). Most people like the flexibility and customization of the current combat class system so while tweaks and balances are needed I don't think we should see classes pigeonholed into one trick ponies (IE allow glads to be more than tanks only and allow conjurers to be more than healers). In the poll, 60%-70% of the people who responded said they liked killing things, if anything every class needs to have a viable method of making sure things die in a timely manner (even if how they do it is different).

[Gasher]

Ok, I will play this game again. In the spirit of XIV I copypasta:d this from a post I made in a similar topic.

Ok here are some minor things which would go a LONG way (in no particular order):

- A REAL LFP SYSTEM (please).
- A REAL PLAYER/AREA SEARCH SYSTEM (in the style of /sea [area] [levelrange] [job] [inviteflag])
- No more teleportation to ether camps for party members who have not visited the location earlier. -> Make players work for their progress.
- Skirr up's for weapons (Let's revive the social function of creating and playing in a skill-up party).
- Draw from the overall experience of developing XI (no, not copy it).
- A sense of genuine exploration and achievement.

I am certain that some of these will give a noticeable boost in Eorzea's social life.

[Edit] On the topic of the game not yet having a real zone/world search system: I should probably add that the reason for this is most likely that squeeenix does not want anyone to be able to establish any kind of usage statistics over FFXIV. Hovever, I still hope they come up with a way to improve player searching. [/Edit]

Thx.

[Tsukino]

[Edit] On the topic of the game not yet having a real zone/world search system: I should probably add that the reason for this is most likely that squeeenix does not want anyone to be able to establish any kind of usage statistics over FFXIV. Hovever, I still hope they come up with a way to improve player searching. [/Edit]

Apparently it's mostly due to the way the server handles players in the game in general. Basically the database is really poorly handled and the game can't handle telling where people in general are. That's why the party system is so separate from the game, and it's also why the LS list updates so slowly and contains no information, why you can't even know what classes people have in your own party unless you're standing right next to them, etc.

This was explained somewhat in the recent interview in the FFXIV-only magazine. They commented that they are working on rebuilding the way the servers handle players in the game, and once that is complete then they will be able to implement search features.

[Gasher]

Apparently it's mostly due to the way the server handles players in the game in general. Basically the database is really poorly handled and the game can't handle telling where people in general are. That's why the party system is so separate from the game, and it's also why the LS list updates so slowly and contains no information, why you can't even know what classes people have in your own party unless you're standing right next to them, etc.

This was explained somewhat in the recent interview in the FFXIV-only magazine. They commented that they are working on rebuilding the way the servers handle players in the game, and once that is complete then they will be able to implement search features.

Tsukino, thanks! I had no idea about this. Now I have to admit... even though I thought I could not get any more surprised by the poorly designed and developed software behind XIV this probably is another dent in that perception.

Would you happen to have any relevant links to sources for this information?

[ViolentDjango]

Ok, I will play this game again. In the spirit of XIV I copypasta:d this from a post I made in a similar topic.

Ok here are some minor things which would go a LONG way (in no particular order):

- A REAL LFP SYSTEM (please).
- A REAL PLAYER/AREA SEARCH SYSTEM (in the style of /sea [area] [levelrange] [job] [inviteflag])
- No more teleportation to ether camps for party members who have not visited the location earlier. -> Make players work for their progress.
- Skirr up's for weapons (Let's revive the social function of creating and playing in a skill-up party).
- Draw from the overall experience of developing XI (no, not copy it).
- A sense of genuine exploration and achievement.

I am certain that some of these will give a noticeable boost in Eorzea's social life.

[Edit] On the topic of the game not yet having a real zone/world search system: I should probably add that the reason for this is most likely that squeeenix does not want anyone to be able to establish any kind of usage statistics over FFXIV. Hovever, I still hope they come up with a way to improve player searching. [/Edit]

Thx.

I agree with the above for the most part, though I feel that a sense of exploration is something someone can get out of FFXIV even with transportation systems. One, there are things that you can't see/can't get to by teleporting, and the number of things on that list are going to increase as the world expands. Two, you can't force people to enjoy traveling if they don't enjoy traveling. Removing teleportation wouldn't make people who don't care about traveling and exploration explore, and would ultimately just serve to piss them off -- those systems are there for people who can't be bothered.

Real world example: you don't "unlock" cities, in the real world. You just travel to them. Some people travel and like to sight see, some people travel and like to explore. When I lived in Paris, France with my sister for a short time, I did very little sight seeing but I roamed around the city and explored a lot -- found cool dive bars and places to hang out and the like. People who want to explore are going to explore, people who want to get from point A to B will just take the bus.

The problem with most MMO RPGs is that they feel they have to support one side or the other, I think supporting both is a good thing for FFXIV. Example, I knew about Lil Ala Migho long before they marked it on the map, because I like running around maps and seeing the interesting side stuff.

Plus, you can't teleport people to sub-crystals, like the Mawana(sp?) Mines one, last I checked -- so that's one thing to look forward to -- being forced, one way or another, to explore to get all of your subsidiary teleports.

Skill ups == No. Fuck that. Skilling up in FFXI is the most painful and ridiculous element of the game. Unless they revamp the system to make it a lot more common sense based, which would make it so easy it wouldn't be worth doing in the first place. Besides, if the only weapons you can use are the ones that set your class -- your skill is always going to be capped anyway. There would never be a reason or need to skill up.

Parties will become more common place when they add search functions and party mechanics anyway, we don't really have to worry about that.

- more lively world, not so copy and pasted terrain
- faster dynamic combat, auto attack every 5 sec is so freaking boring.
- completely different battle UI + different menu UI, less lag in UI
- different retainer UI, maybe an AH
- PvP
- more content and so on...

Yeah, we're past that. If "copy and pasted" terrain really bugs you -- you're probably going to want to not play any game that's come out in the past 5 years or that will be out within the next 5... because copy and pasting elements of maps isn't unique to FFXIV and FFXIV definitely isn't the only game where it is painstakingly obvious.

As far as faster combat, they're working on that. And they are making auto attacks more unique too. There's not much they can do to turn trash/basic mobs into anything more exciting or amazing though without over complicating the game.

Tsukino, thanks! I had no idea about this. Now I have to admit... even though I thought I could not get any more surprised by the poorly designed and developed software behind XIV this probably is another dent in that perception.

Would you happen to have any relevant links to sources for this information?

Yeah, the problem ended up being that they treated FFXIV too much like an outside, stand-alone project and didn't treat it as a sequel to FFXI (i.e. drawing from the core structure of FFXI) like they should have. The new development engine used, i.e. Crystal Tools, was another problem because they couldn't use any of the key development/programming things they learned from FFXI in the development of the game.

That's why there's the blaring gap between things that are perfectly function-able and seemingly transferable in FFXI to things that make no sense in FFXIV (starting off with no search functions, for example, when FFXI can tell you everything short of a person's current HP and equipment without you even being in a zone with them)

Lodestone, oddly enough, seems to have more access to the game's character database than the ingame functions seem to.

[Geesus]

Yeah, the problem ended up being that they treated FFXIV too much like an outside, stand-alone project and didn't treat it as a sequel to FFXI (i.e. drawing from the core structure of FFXI) like they should have. The new development engine used, i.e. Crystal Tools, was another problem because they couldn't use any of the key development/programming things they learned from FFXI in the development of the game.

That's why there's the blaring gap between things that are perfectly function-able and seemingly transferable in FFXI to things that make no sense in FFXIV (starting off with no search functions, for example, when FFXI can tell you everything short of a person's current HP and equipment without you even being in a zone with them)

Lodestone, oddly enough, seems to have more access to the game's character database than the ingame functions seem to.

As true as this is it still boggles my mind that, in the 8 years XIV(Rapture) was in production you can't tell me NO ONE at SE thought about this?! That's poor planning in ANY IT field. When you have a model that works it's fine to bring in something new i.e. Crystal Tools which SE developed on their own for XIV if I remember correctly, to create the world of Eorzea. So whether it's server issue or not, I'm sorry, this is not, and yes I know it's been said before but, SE's first time building a MMO from scratch! It's ironic when you look at all they had done in 6+ years with XI and the 8 years of development of XIV that the OP is asking this question and the new folks over at SE are asking for OUR input.

As far as how to keep retention? Well, if XIV went P2P and they asked the full 15$, I'd leave. I like the game now tbh as it's free and gives me something to do till SWTOR releases. I started in OB with XIV and stayed util March this year. I quit because people weren't leaving fast enough<sarcasm> and all my LS mates left from 2 full 70+ players to ZERO. So I hung back and read and watched and while coming back to find some nice things happening in game and DEFINITE improvements, it's dead in here. I would suggest the drastic server transfer or merger but I know realistically that can't happen JUST in case the PS3 launch happens #1 and #2 is actually successful. But I do think one thing they CAN do is allow people to transfer their characters from one dead server to another higher pop server so the dead one's can be shut down UNTIL launch. That helps SE in a lot of ways and would help players move without losing any work they currently have completed and having to grind or what have you all over again.

Things that would help convince me to stay:

Gear and weaps need overhual. This convoluted mess they have for a gear/weaps system is shite imho. I understand the reason for doing what they did with the classes and it's cool idea that generally works. But the gear is such a mess. Wth do I get for this job at this level? Nothing is condensed in any sort of organized manner as is such in ANY other MMO. You should be able to go, hmmm level 7 Con lets go Con gear level 7 Oh snap THERE u go. Not ok ward, lower tailors ok hmmmm yes, a new hat would be....WTF IS THIS MESS? 10 different pairs of freaking hats and NONE are my oh wait there's.... 100K for a Con7?! O.O No thanks. I'm tired of wasting my freaking time searching for so many different options it makes my head spin. Has SE ever heard, "Less is more?" How is it that freaking websites such as FFXIVpro and YG.com have better organization of SE's ward system them they do?! LMAO That's the first thing.

Redo the maps. Been said I know and maybe or may not get done who knows but you would THINK, with so many years and the fact SE stated many many times that XIV was NOT XI-2 then why the hell does Coerthas look like the Konschtat Highlands, LL look like Jeuno, Grid look like Windy and Ul'Dah looks like BASTOK?! That deserves a "Come on mannnn" (football/ESPN fans will get that joke). Same with the mobs. Some of them are really neat and interesting. Others are just hybrids of XI mobs. I seriously doubt anything like that will occur....

That's pretty much it as it SEEMS SE is trying to address other concerns. But I really won't know how I feel till the next big patches come out and when SWTOR is released or I get in the OB to see if I enjoy that game better. Which in ways would be sad. I LOVED XI and had extremely high hopes for XIV. But, I was also a big fan of KTOR before I feel in love with XI so we shall see. Right now, server pop is biggest issue in my book. Get more people onto a few servers rather then across all of them and shut them down temporarily until the PS3 release. Save yourselves a few bucks on cooling and powering those beasts SE. lol

[Roaran]

I have planned to stick with FFXIV since the beggining, no other MMO interests me, save for my friend wanting to play GW2. FFXIV will probably be my last MMO sooner or later depending on the state of the game and when they plan on charging.

That said, so far, I have faith in Yoshi and the team. When PS3 ver. is released... I think we will see if that faith is justified.

[Leknaat]

To be honest? I'd probalby have left the game 6 months ago if I didn't have $100 USD tied up in unrefundable crysta. Now that FF11 takes crysta... well I'm not tied down anymore.

I'm still playing cause I like the most recent changes and I'm willing to see the game through now till it goes pay2play.

The changes are necessary to bring in the casual players that SE wants - because unless they meet their target numbers the game is ultimately going nowhere. In the end it's a game of numbers.

If fans enjoy it that's great but it's ultimately so that SE turns a profit and makes their investors happy. If that means driving off 3 players that have stuck by the game through thick and thin to bring in 5 more, SE is going to do that. (And I think they'd like the casual players more... at least they won't chew through 6 months of content in 1 month or less. :P)

I accept that the game might not go in the direction I ultimately want but I'm willing to hold judgment until the day they say 'pay or gtfo'.

[Okiura]

atm i'm playing cos i look at the current crafting system and i vision what the game can be, yes it has it's flaws but other then that for me it's the ray of light in what is atm a pretty poor game.

however with my 2 cents on this stupid crafting update said in this thread too, sofar all the improvements have been for the better (still on the fence on dark matter repairs but think i can live with it). excluding crafting if i have to rate this game out of 10 in the beta i would have given it a 1/10 now maybe as high as a 4/10, which b4 ppl slate me and say "it's better then that!" that's a great improvement in my books and thumbs up to SE, but you have to agree there is still so much room for improvement Choc's, airships, lvl caps, end game, non content related fixes, the list goes on.

that being said if by the time they start to charge it not at least a 7/10 i probably won't continue playing,i may come back to it later but by then i'll have to pay to see if it's improved and idk if i will.

[Chiz]

I've been saying this for 8 months now, this game needs 1 thing, content. Challenging, fun, rewarding, engaging content. So many people cried about the lack of class differentiation and combat imbalances, but the reality of it is, there just wasn't any content in the game yet to make people fully appreciate the vast array of skills and specialties between classes. Now that the dungeons have come out however, I think people are fully appreciating the subtle class differences supplemented by the flexibility offered by the Armoury System. Will be a shame when SE destroys the Armoury System as we know it when they introduce Jobs and class revisions.

Anyways, we need more dungeons like the two new ones introduced, but with a varied flavor. I'd like to see dungeons dedicated to leveling from 1 to 50 where you can LFP and join-in for a few hours of fun killing monsters, NMs and being rewarded for it with EXP and loot.

XIV needs to get away from guild leves and introduce quests that are focused in an area or region, which it sounds like SE is looking to do with Quest Hubs and Beastmen dungeons. Quest Givers that have multiple focused and themed objectives in an area that gives you a sense of continuity while exploring instead of the guild leve model of killing 5 random mobs, return to Aetheryte, kill another 6 random mobs etc.

An easy enough change would be a quest to actually hunt and kill the various R30-35 NMs that were introduced in 1.17. Not only would you have a chance for the item the NM dropped, but you would also get a chance at SP and a quest reward from the Quest Giver. This is the kind of small touch that gives a sense of actual content rather than a random mob in the wild with a special name with 10x more HP than the normal mob and a small % chance to drop an item.

Instead of Behests, implement something like Warhammer's Public Quest sytem, which will be an easy implementation once the multi-claim system is implemented. Instead of randomly killing various mobs every 30 minutes just for EXP, there could be a scripted event sequence that spawns more challenging mobs and NMs that rewards participants with loot.

Just a few ideas, but the sad reality of it is, FFXIV in its current state is barren of what MMO gamers consider content in this day and age. We have 2 raid dungeons, guild leves, and a handful of NMs to show for the 12 months since the game went live. Is it any surprise there's a problem with player retention?