o.O Overkill on the crafting Dumb down?

[MariyaShidou]

He doesn't craft, he need 2 hours and a half to craft [item=4040101]Bronze Labrys[/item], never mind that about half of the oh-so-diffcult parts are bought from NPC...

Ah crap, did I say NPC? OH MAH GODZ, NERF NPC NOW! THEY SELL STUFF THAT AINT MEANT TO BE USED!

[Sorel]

you may see people grind on those materials at low ranks
but those materials DO NOT go to 50, so yes, they will ALL be grinding finished products eventualy

the fact you even mention that just shows that you dont even really craft at all too...you dont understand anything going on here really unlike those of us who have been at it since day 1 and have overdone it

He doesn't craft, he need 2 hours and a half to craft [item=4040101]Bronze Labrys[/item], never mind that about half of the oh-so-diffcult parts are bought from NPC...

Ah crap, did I say NPC? OH MAH GODZ, NERF NPC NOW! THEY SELL STUFF THAT AINT MEANT TO BE USED!

I do not make it a habit of grind-crafting if that is what you are implying. As for my experience, I would have you know I have been crafting since closed beta.

I would also have you know that 2 of those [item=4040101]Bronze Labrys[/item] came out HQ+1 ... so I am not as inept as you seem to want to make me out to be.

The reason that it took two-and-a-half hours was due to gathering all (2) of the materials for [item=10302022]Ash Axe Haft[/item] and then waiting for a Carpenter to show up in the Carpentry Guild and asking very politely (and paying rather handsomely) for him to make them for me. This particular part is apparently so rare that it's not for sale by Vendors, not sold in Market Wards, and even the Rank 36 Carpenter that made them for me didn't know the recipe. Why should such a rarefied part even exist??

[MariyaShidou]

I would have you know that I do indeed craft. I would also have you know that 2 of those [item=4040101]Bronze Labrys[/item] came out HQ+1 ... so I am not as inept as you seem to want to make me out to be.

The reason that it took two-and-a-half hours was due to gathering all (2) of the materials for [item=10302022]Ash Axe Haft[/item] and then waiting for a Carpenter to show up in the Carpentry Guild and asking very politely (and paying rather handsomely) for him to make them for me. This particular part is apparently so rare that it's not for sale by Vendors, not sold in Market Wards, and even the Rank 36 Carpenter that made them for me didn't know the recipe. Why should such a rarefied part even exist??

Yes, because it's so rare that people sell a ton of [item=4040101]Bronze Labrys[/item] in Ward. Oh oops.

See, nobody buy the finished item. Why should ANYBODY make the parts when the FINISHED ITEM doesn't sell? Guess somebody can't just get that into their head.

[Amineri]

I would have you know that I do indeed craft. I would also have you know that 2 of those [item=4040101]Bronze Labrys[/item] came out HQ+1 ... so I am not as inept as you seem to want to make me out to be.

The reason that it took two-and-a-half hours was due to gathering all (2) of the materials for [item=10302022]Ash Axe Haft[/item] and then waiting for a Carpenter to show up in the Carpentry Guild and asking very politely (and paying rather handsomely) for him to make them for me. This particular part is apparently so rare that it's not for sale by Vendors, not sold in Market Wards, and even the Rank 36 Carpenter that made them for me didn't know the recipe. Why should such a rarefied part even exist??

I would hazard to say that the reason to say that the reason that it's not sold in the market wards is that it is a rank 1 Carpentry synth to make an [item=10302022]Ash Axe Haft[/item]. Given that a pair of crafting leves will take a crafter from rank 1 to rank 10 (or thereabouts), very few people are going to make such an item, except for the two axes it is used to create : the Bronze Labrys you described, and the [item=4040003]Iron War Axe[/item].

Since it was a rank 1 synthesis, practically speaking, in this case, you could have purchased a weathered saw and rather easily made it yourself. However, I understand that this point is slightly off-topic, and that it is the general intent of the system that is at question.

Part of the reason that the synthesis system isn't working in your case is because of the changes made to the SP curve for leveling DoW from rank 1 to 24. Both the SP required was reduced (from ranks 1 to 31) and bonus SP is granted from rank 1 to 24. This was done (as Yoshi-P explained) in order to get new players a suite of abilities more quickly, so that they could "feel like they were playing the game." At the same time, however, no adjustments were made to the early-rank synthesis recipes. The speed-up of the early-rank ranking process essentially created lower demand for low-rank equipment. Since people spend less time at low rank, they feel less inclined to invest in gear that quickly becomes obsolete.

In light of this, simplifying recipes that create items from rank 1 to 20ish makes a lot of sense.

However, right around rank 32 the SP curve starts making a noticable increase, and the progression rate slows down. At that point, people begin to more seriously invest in new gear. It's also at this point that players have a bit of gil to spend, and so selling items (and possibly difficult parts) could become more profitable. However, most dedicated crafters end up searching out other crafters, both for friendship as well as economic reasons. This is the other reason that most parts don't end up on the market. If I need blue coral arrowheads, I buy (or trade for) some blue coral, and then have one of my goldsmith friends make blue coral arrowheads.

Part of the reason this is so revolves around the current economics. The combination of inventory pressure and limited bazaar selling space conspire to force only the most-popular and best-selling items onto the shelves. Just imagine if your local grocery market only had space to sell 20 items! In addition, if the grocery had very limited "back room storage", there would be intense pressure to only sell goods that sell.

Further, there are opportunity costs involved. If I attempt to sell one slow-moving, low profit item, I do so at the cost of selling a faster-moving, higher profit item. My current example is [item]Blue Coral Arrows[/item]. I make these to gain carpentry SP, and then sell them at a 'modest' profit of 23 gil per arrow, or 23k per stack. At this price, if I list up 10 stacks of arrows (30 synths worth), it is quite likely that they will sell within a day. In contrast, selling an Ash Axe Haft would take a week or more to sell, and at best would sell for 1000 gil, scarcely more then the material and shard cost.

tl;dr

• Your part wasn't available because it was a rank 1 synthesis that anyone could make
• The changes to the low-rank SP curves mean that low-rank synths SHOULD be changed to match
• There are economic pressures forcing parts off the market (due to limited bazaar space and crowded inventories)

[Sorel]

Yes, because it's so rare that people sell a ton of [item=4040101]Bronze Labrys[/item] in Ward. Oh oops.

See, nobody buy the finished item. Why should ANYBODY make the parts when the FINISHED ITEM doesn't sell? Guess somebody can't just get that into their head.

Do you want to have this argument right now ... fine.

As I told everyone earlier, my Finished Products always sell out. You just assume Finished Products don't sell because it justifies your logic. I actually have experience that proves your assumption wrong.

No one on my server sold [item=4040101]Bronze Labrys[/item] in the Market Wards at the time. Likely this was due to the fact that it could be bought from an NPC. And the Blacksmiths on my server seem to have made the same assumption that you did.

See, nobody buy the finished item.

So what's a player to do?

"Hey, I'm a Blacksmith I can make my own Bronze Labrys, and it probably would be better than those Wal-Mart brand ones in the local shop."

So I did. And they were. And I kept one of the HQ+1 for my personal use, put the other HQ+1 and the two NQ on the Market Wards. Next day, I check my retainer and they all sold.

I could tell every axe and hammer crafting story I have, but this one proves my point.

Now I do understand where you are coming from and what the point you are trying to make is (see Post #735). But using generalizations, assumptions, and name-calling "He's not a REAL crafter" to try and discredit my point makes your argument look weaker ... even if your underlying point is not.

[MariyaShidou]

I was bored so

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/9059/axewl.jpg

[Amineri]

So I did. And they were. And I kept one of the HQ+1 for my personal use, put the other HQ+1 and the two NQ on the Market Wards. Next day, I check my retainer and they all sold.

I have a question for you, however!

Why did you not sell the ash axe handles instead of the three bronze labrys? I believe the reason that you did not choose to do so is the same reason that no one else would choose to do so.

An Ash Axe Haft will sell to an NPC for 204 gil. Comparing that to the minimal amount that anyone would likely be willing to pay (how much would you have been willing to pay for it?), and the likely amount of time the item would sit in your retainers' bazaar, taking up space in which something else could be sold, and the end result is that anyone that makes any is more likely to sell them to an NPC then to try and sell them in the wards.

[Sorel]

I have a question for you, however!

Why did you not sell the ash axe handles instead of the three bronze labrys? I believe the reason that you did not choose to do so is the same reason that no one else would choose to do so.

Honestly, it never occurred to me to sell an item ([item=10302022]Ash Axe Haft[/item]) that I had gone to a substantial amount of trouble to acquire. My intention at the time was to make mas many HQ [item=4040101]Bronze Labrys[/item] as I could; both for a personal sense of accomplishment (a 50% HQ rate is not something that happens that often to me on a synth I was barely qualified to make), and to maximize the return on investment that I made.

An Ash Axe Haft will sell to an NPC for 204 gil. Comparing that to the minimal amount that anyone would likely be willing to pay (how much would you have been willing to pay for it?), and the likely amount of time the item would sit in your retainers' bazaar, taking up space in which something else could be sold, and the end result is that anyone that makes any is more likely to sell them to an NPC then to try and sell them in the wards.

To answer your question, I would have paid the rough equivalent of what I paid the Carpenter I found to make the 4 [item=10302022]Ash Axe Haft[/item]. I paid him 4,000 gil, supplied all the materials, and threw in 500 Wind Shards for his trouble. So I would say I would have been willing to pay 2,000 gil for each Ash Axe Haft. Considering the results, it wouldn't have been a bad investment.

I hope that answers your questions.

[Wynn]

To answer your question, I would have paid the rough equivalent of what I paid the Carpenter I found to make the 4 [item=10302022]Ash Axe Haft[/item]. I paid him 4,000 gil, supplied all the materials, and threw in 500 Wind Shards for his trouble. So I would say I would have been willing to pay 2,000 gil for each Ash Axe Haft. Considering the results, it wouldn't have been a bad investment.

I hope that answers your questions.

You're extremely generous. That synth is something anyone could have done just by picking up a saw, even yourself. No carpentry experience required.

[Sorel]

You're extremely generous. That synth is something anyone could have done just by picking up a saw, even yourself. No carpentry experience required.

Despite how I may sound, I respect all crafters who have put forth the time and effort to excel at their chosen profession ... be they grind-crafters, leve-crafters, or equipment suppliers. Though I am all for maximizing my profit, I wouldn't low-ball a fellow crafter for the sake of making an extra 4K gil ... especially a crafter that is higher rank than me and is doing me a favor. That just seems disrespectful of that crafter's time, in my humble opinion.

Anyway, enough about me. We're supposed to be arguing tooth and nail about the abolishment of parts!

(Mortal Kombat Theme starts playing in the background)