o.O Overkill on the crafting Dumb down?

[Rinsui]

Yes. I personally don't like these changes. However, I fully admit that my personal opinion as to whether I like it or not does not matter. The dev team makes the final call, and their decision is based solely on the following consideration : what will make the game successful by attracting and retaining paying customers.

If SE makes changes to the game that drive me away, and attract and retain ten people in my place, then it was the correct decision.

You make an assertion that depth and complexity (i.e. "overly complicated system") is what will drive keep new players away or fail to retain them. I disagree. I believe that depth and complexity to a system make it engaging and compelling. A shallow, insipid system may initially attract people, but will fail to retain them.

Is the current recipe system perfect as is? Of course not. No one disagrees that changes are needed (well, nearly no one). However, the scale of the changes is being questioned.

Regarding "crafting endless hours watching netflix", I 1000% agree with you that this has to go. I personally hate (again, does not matter to SE) the way the crafting ranking system works in this FFXIV. What does matter: do the recipe changes have any effect on the grind of ranking up crafting? Making the same thing over and over again is still going to be the primary method of ranking up a crafting class.

Point taken. I agree thet the most pressing problem is how uninspiring th crafting process per se is. The complexity of recipes is just a minor issue in comparison. I am happy about the simplification nonetheless - just as I was happy about the (thank you, gods!) simplifications to the repair system.

Basically, the current system could have worked well with about 10 times the player numbers we have now; because then, niche markes would have had a chance of survival. With just (an estimated) 900 (?) players per server left, however, niche market goods (e.g. light-blue hempen sleeves) stop being profitable. Somebody has to sell those, you know. And that requires retainer slots for a very specific and rarely used item possibly none of the remaining 899 players is going to buy.

The simplification of recipes has a good chance to invigorate the economy; or rather, to provide a new "infrastructure" (I guess you know what I mean) to an economy that is based on far lower player numbers than the developers had originally expected.

[DoubleEcho]

And what does a part consist of? Where do the part makers get this? DoL players are the ones affected here, not the crafters. As a crafter I couldn't care less about parts, I'm bitching as a gatherer.

Well I don't think you'll be gathering much (if any) of these materials they're doing away with. Let's use the dev post example:

Current Recipe (Hempen Doublet)
1 hempen doublet front (crafted)
1 hempen doublet back (crafted)
1 pair of sheepskin shoulder guards (taupe) (crafted)
1 sheep leather strap (taupe) (crafted)
1 pair of hempen sleeves (crafted)
1 spindle of hempen yarn (gathered, it drops from a mob)

New Recipe (Hempen Doublet Vest)
1 bolt of undyed hempen cloth (drops from a mob)
1 spindle of hempen yarn (drops from a mob)
1 circle of sheep leather (crafted, bought from NPC as well)
1 copper ingot (crafted, bought from NPC as well)

There are no mats in this recipe that drop from DoL. I know this is only one example, but I feel that the "parts" they're speaking of are crafted parts. If something you gather is in a recipe for parts it's not like it won't be used for something else. You will not go broke or become worthless over this.

[Sorel]

Call me stupid but it doesn't look like the part system is completely gone I mean it went from 6 parts to 4 >_> if anything more inventory space like most people wanted.

This. We're complaining over semantics guys.

All the material for the new recipe still has to be crafted before you can make the final product. Just because the material doesn't have the word "part" in it's category name doesn't make it less of a part.

I invite you to look at this from a different point of view.

New Recipe (Hempen Doublet Vest)

• Undyed Hempen Cloth (Weaver-made Item)

  • Hempen Yarn (Weaver-made Item)

• Hempen Yarn (Weaver-made Item)
• Sheep Leather (Leatherworker-made Item)
• Copper Ingot (Armorsmith/Blacksmith/Goldsmith-made Item)

  • Copper Nugget (Blacksmith/Golsmith-made Item)

As you can see, even with this new recipe, some items still require a crafting step before the final synthesis (Hempen Cloth, Copper Ingot). Some items can also only be made by crafts outside the final synthesis craft (Sheep Leather, Copper Ingot).

So a final product (Hempen Doublet Vest) still requires multiple crafting steps AND multiple crafts to create it from beginning to end. The only practical difference between this new recipe and the old recipe is that the new one takes 6 synthesis steps before final synthesis, while the old one took 14 (I researched and counted them).

I guess some can call that "dumbing down", but in my estimation, I would call it "streamlining" ... and in my personal and humble opinion, I believe that this is an improvement.

[Tsukino]

[*]Copper Ingot (Armorsmith/Blacksmith/Goldsmith-made Item)

• Copper Nugget (Blacksmith/Golsmith-made Item)

The majority of ingots in the game likely come from leve rewards, because it takes five nuggets just to make one yet leves give you 12 at a time. Even if people are making ingots for grinding purposes, they'll always be worthless due to the sheer amount the game generates itself.

[DoubleEcho]

This. We're complaining over semantics guys.

You said this much better than me, thank you

[Atoli]

I'm kind of sad everything gets so much easier..I remember how proud I was when a friend I usually play with and I had to combine our knowledge and abilities and after searching for materials and everything finally were able to carefully craft our very first piece of equipment.
It was such a wonderful feeling mainly because it was not easy to get all the ingredients, because we nearly messed up some synthesis, etc.
We are no 8 year old children who can't understand a more complex crafting system.

Buuuut overall, I'm happy with the changes.
Especially the part about the color makes me happy
Oh, and that we won't need additional abilities anymore. I never understood them anyways.
If I'm a leatherworker making some shoes, I don't think I really need to know exactly HOW the nails I bought from a blacksmith are made

But I think what they are planning is a bit too much and in the wrong direction.
How about trying to make the crafting system more INTERESTING so you don't fall asleep instead of making it more simple so you'd still fall asleep but won't because you are done in 10 seconds like in any other MMORPG?

It's time Yoshi-P starts a new poll.
He's still obsessed with the "we want everything to change" answer from months ago.
But I think most players just want moderate changes by now..

[...] when no one is making parts.

Oh come on, it's not like you can make everything directly from the stuff you got as a DoL. We will STILL make parts, just less and easier ones, not no parts at all.
Stop over-dramatizing it

[Xenor]

Because you know exactly how drop rates for gatheres will change?

Have you got a source for these changes or are you just talking out your ass? They'd have to nerf drop rates so bad to balance this that half of your successful gathers wouldn't even result in an item while the rest capped at 1.

Well I don't think you'll be gathering much (if any) of these materials they're doing away with. Let's use the dev post example:

Current Recipe (Hempen Doublet)
1 hempen doublet front (crafted)
1 hempen doublet back (crafted)
1 pair of sheepskin shoulder guards (taupe) (crafted)
1 sheep leather strap (taupe) (crafted)
1 pair of hempen sleeves (crafted)
1 spindle of hempen yarn (gathered, it drops from a mob)

New Recipe (Hempen Doublet Vest)
1 bolt of undyed hempen cloth (drops from a mob)
1 spindle of hempen yarn (drops from a mob)
1 circle of sheep leather (crafted, bought from NPC as well)
1 copper ingot (crafted, bought from NPC as well)

There are no mats in this recipe that drop from DoL. I know this is only one example, but I feel that the "parts" they're speaking of are crafted parts. If something you gather is in a recipe for parts it's not like it won't be used for something else. You will not go broke or become worthless over this.

That's because that's a weaver item. Hempen is made from Moko Grass which is harvested in botany. However the lower demand for hempen isn't going to matter. What will matter is when recipes that smiths and CRPs make get changed. Those parts are made up of lumber and nuggets. Eliminate the parts, you eliminate the lumber and nugget requirements, which reduces demand for ores and logs.

[JGwinters]

When I first read about the removal of parts I couldn't believe what I was reading and thought there had to be a mistake somewhere. Removing them entirely doesn't make any sense. Simplifying dyes, yes. Streamlining recipe levels, yes. Making crafting itself more entertaining, yes. But removal of parts?! Not to mention removing support/treatises. Maybe one, but both removed... I swear, the Yoshida team has no moderation to it, it's always extremes.

[MariyaShidou]

Let's just give our retainer the ability to gather material and our companion the ability to craft items. Why not? It's streamlining! SWTOR do it, and they are predicted to have 3M sales! It even helps to force people left with nothing to do but follow the story mission, and then we can have over 1,000 hours long story worth!

[Amineri]

This. We're complaining over semantics guys.

All the material for the new recipe still has to be crafted before you can make the final product. Just because the material doesn't have the word "part" in it's category name doesn't make it less of a part.

I invite you to look at this from a different point of view.

New Recipe (Hempen Doublet Vest)

• Undyed Hempen Cloth (Weaver-made Item)

  • Hempen Yarn (Weaver-made Item)

• Hempen Yarn (Weaver-made Item)
• Sheep Leather (Leatherworker-made Item)
• Copper Ingot (Armorsmith/Blacksmith/Goldsmith-made Item)

  • Copper Nugget (Blacksmith/Golsmith-made Item)

As you can see, even with this new recipe, some items still require a crafting step before the final synthesis (Hempen Cloth, Copper Ingot). Some items can also only be made by crafts outside the final synthesis craft (Sheep Leather, Copper Ingot).

So a final product (Hempen Doublet Vest) still requires multiple crafting steps AND multiple crafts to create it from beginning to end. The only practical difference between this new recipe and the old recipe is that the new one takes 6 synthesis steps before final synthesis, while the old one took 14 (I researched and counted them).

I guess some can call that "dumbing down", but in my estimation, I would call it "streamlining" ... and in my personal and humble opinion, I believe that this is an improvement.

Cloth and Yarn are droppable items. They drop from ghosts. Given the every-increasing drive toward HQ items, and the fact that the easiest way to get +3 cloth and yarn is from a drop, the first two items in this example recipe will having nothing to do with crafting or gathering. Copper nuggets also drops from monsters (coblyns). Sheep leather does not drop from enemies, but buffalo leather (the most commonly used version) does.

Suddenly this synthesis looks like the following:
New Recipe (Hempen Doublet Vest)

• Undyed Hempen Cloth (Get +3 drop from ghost)
• Hempen Yarn (Get +3 drop from ghost)
• Sheep Leather (Leatherworker-made Item [for buffalo leather, get +3 drop from bandit humanoids])
• Copper Ingot (Armorsmith/Blacksmith/Goldsmith-made Item)

  • Copper Nugget (Get +3 drop from coblyn)

Given just the list above, you can see that there is pretty much no need for gathering. Cloth / yarn from drops. Sheepskin from drops. Copper nuggets from drops (or just purchase from NPC). Do you see where this is heading?