o.O Overkill on the crafting Dumb down?

[Sorel]

Where do you think all your finished items are going to end up? Sold in the ward? LOL

I'll have you know that ALL of my finished goods (mostly axes and hammers) sell very well in Limsa Lominsa's Market Wards.

There is more demand for finished goods than for parts, but grind-crafters are so dependent on parts as a crutch for their grinding, they leave the demand for equipment that players can actually use unfulfilled.

Now I'm happy to profit from others inability to see past their own SP/hour. But I also recognize that the larger problem of not enough finished goods in the economy and grind-crafters' self-disconnection from that economy needs to be fixed. If that means kicking the crutch out from under grind-crafters ... so mote it be.

[Wynn]

I'll have you know that ALL of my finished goods (mostly axes and hammers) sell very well in Limsa Lominsa's Market Wards.

There is more demand for finished goods than for parts, but grind-crafters are so dependent on parts as a crutch for their grinding, they leave the demand for equipment that players can actually use unfulfilled.

Now I'm happy to profit from others inability to see past their own SP/hour. But I also recognize that the larger problem of not enough finished goods in the economy and grind-crafters' self-disconnection from that economy needs to be fixed. If that means kicking the crutch out from under grind-crafters ... so mote it be.

What I don't think you are understanding is this: Parts being removed means crafters will grind on finished items. This will lead to an excess of finished items. The wards will be flooded, nothing will sell. And all those finished items will be more than anyone can carry since it will eat up all their inventory space so instead of vendoring parts from grinding, they will be vendoring their finished items.

It sounds like you mostly do your leveling in crafts from leves. Is that a correct assumption?

[Sorel]

What I don't think you are understanding is this: Parts being removed means crafters will grind on finished items. This will lead to an excess of finished items. The wards will be flooded, nothing will sell. And all those finished items will be more than anyone can carry since it will eat up all their inventory space so instead of vendoring parts from grinding, they will be vendoring their finished items.

It sounds like you mostly do your leveling in crafts from leves. Is that a correct assumption?

This is were I do not follow your logic. Why would nothing sell?? The markets are flooded with crystal sellers, and they manage to sell their goods.

And you are correct, I mostly level my crafts from leves. I on occassion (not to any large extent) grind nuggets and ingots because they sell very well on the markets, and I always have use for the excess.

[darkstarpoet1]

This is were I do not follow your logic. Why would nothing sell?? The markets are flooded with crystal sellers, and they manage to sell their goods.

And you are correct, I mostly level my crafts from leves. I on occassion (not to any large extent) grind nuggets and ingots because they sell very well on the markets, and I always have use for the excess.

here is simple logic that should be easy to follow.

example1: go buy 100 earth shards and then go do 8 synths of iron squares.... you are out of shards and must go get more.

example2: go buy the r22 goldsmith hammer and do 8 synths doing anything..... you still have your hammer and do not need another. you will use that hammer for quite a few levels before the need to upgrade again. when you do upgrade that used hammer gets repaired and goes back into the system.

consumables will always sell better than non consumables. the reason being is, in basic math, if you have 500 people on your server then you will only have the need for 500 goldsmith hammers throughout its life. in that same time you will need hundreds of thousands of shards. if you use anything and when you are done you need more of them then there will always be a market. i even used 500 hammers knowing that when one finishes the craft they will sell their hammer off more than likely so you may have 4-5 people using the same hammer.

[Sorel]

consumables will always sell better than non consumables. the reason being is, in basic math, if you have 500 people on your server then you will only have the need for 500 goldsmith hammers throughout its life. in that same time you will need hundreds of thousands of shards. if you use anything and when you are done you need more of them then there will always be a market. i even used 500 hammers knowing that when one finishes the craft they will sell their hammer off more than likely so you may have 4-5 people using the same hammer.

I agree that consumables will always sell better than non-consumables. But thanks to the Armory System there are more consumers of non-consumables than appear at first glance. When I start ranking my Thaumaturge I'm going to need equipment. The equipment that I used to rank Gladiator simply won't work. I'll need to buy a new set of equipment again.

Plus, with the introduction of the Materia System, equipment starts becoming consumable. Yes, they won't be consumed at the rate of crystals or food or potions, but they will start leaving the economy.

[darkstarpoet1]

I agree that consumables will always sell better than non-consumables. But thanks to the Armory System there are more consumers of non-consumables than appear at first glance. When I start ranking my Thaumaturge I'm going to need equipment. The equipment that I used to rank Gladiator simply won't work. I'll need to buy a new set of equipment again.

Plus, with the introduction of the Materia System, equipment starts becoming consumable. Yes they won't be consumed at the rate of crystals or food or potions, but they will start leaving the economy.

but that's where the issue lies. you have not ranked thm yet so you don' have gear for it already, but tons have. not only are the crafters competing with each other in making and selling, but they are also competing with the people that have already ranked the class and moved on to their next set of gear. once the finished gear is made once it stays in the market because they are not spirit bound(sorry for the mention of another game) nor do they get destroyed over time. that means once you rank your thm you may be using an item that's been used by multiple people since day 1 of the game.

you do bring up a good point about the materia system, but you also have to wonder even if you make one item into materia you will still only need one of a certain type of clothing and not thousands of them.

edit: i would like to point out a few people from the last few posts. ferth and sorel i have been in the forums since they opened and would like to point out you 2 for not agreeing and actually having a legit conversation of the differences without the flame and troll posts that are so common. good job guys/girls.

[TheVedis]

This is were I do not follow your logic. Why would nothing sell?? The markets are flooded with crystal sellers, and they manage to sell their goods.

And you are correct, I mostly level my crafts from leves. I on occassion (not to any large extent) grind nuggets and ingots because they sell very well on the markets, and I always have use for the excess.

wow, you dont get it?
when EVERYONE is grinding on nothing but finished products
do you really think they will all sell like hotcakes?

no, the prices will go into the dirt, people will buy them yes, but only a handful, if even that of the thousands being made to level on will sell. and they will sell so cheap that youd probly get more money vendoring them at that point cuz everyone else wants to sell theirs too

[darkstarpoet1]

wow, you dont get it?
when EVERYONE is grinding on nothing but finished products
do you really think they will all sell like hotcakes?

no, the prices will go into the dirt, people will buy them yes, but only a handful, if even that of the thousands being made to level on will sell. and they will sell so cheap that youd probly get more money vendoring them at that point cuz everyone else wants to sell theirs too

not only that veds, but once you take into account how many hempen doublets could one person use? you use one and then you move on. yes, as new people join the game that one person will need one more, but it will likely be someone that has already used the item and just doesn't want to npc it so gets some super cheap price for their old gear or just tosses theirs to them.

since i see alchemist as r50 my logical question is how many thermal alembics have you bought? one maybe 2(if you want a backup).

in that same time i wonder how many earth shards you used ranking up your armorer? 50,000+?

i wasn't pointing out you specifically, because i don't disagree with your point i just wanted to expand on it.

[TheVedis]

not only that veds, but once you take into account how many hempen doublets could one person use? you use one and then you move on. yes, as new people join the game that one person will need one more, but it will likely be someone that has already used the item and just doesn't want to npc it so gets some super cheap price for their old gear or just tosses theirs to them.

since i see alchemist as r50 my logical question is how many thermal alembics have you bought? one maybe 2(if you want a backup).

in that same time i wonder how many earth shards you used ranking up your armorer? 50,000+?

i wasn't pointing out you specifically, because i don't disagree with your point i just wanted to expand on it.

i actualy bought 0....
i made my own

and yeah shards were painful for armoror lol


but in the end the problem is, as i said, people dont need 5000 canvas doublets, they dont need 10000 linen hats
or any item

right now, the market sells really well having 10-20 of any item on it at a given time, more then that and you end up with uber undercut wars in which no seller wins, and it gets to the point where you are losing money(and at that point you stop making gear cuz you odnt profit off it)

in the new system, people will be grinding on gear, whatever gear gets deemed the "leveling recipe" is gonna become worthless overnight, while those that do have more materials to them will at least be more competitive on the market(more people can make them but wont unless they wanna sell them specificaly, and those types dont make a ton of them)

[darkstarpoet1]

i actualy bought 0....
i made my own

and yeah shards were painful for armoror lol


but in the end the problem is, as i said, people dont need 5000 canvas doublets, they dont need 10000 linen hats
or any item

right now, the market sells really well having 10-20 of any item on it at a given time, more then that and you end up with uber undercut wars in which no seller wins, and it gets to the point where you are losing money(and at that point you stop making gear cuz you odnt profit off it)

in the new system, people will be grinding on gear, whatever gear gets deemed the "leveling recipe" is gonna become worthless overnight, while those that do have more materials to them will at least be more competitive on the market(more people can make them but wont unless they wanna sell them specificaly, and those types dont make a ton of them)

another thing to look at is over time with the vendor wars over price to sell the item first. ok i want to go and make my own cotton robe. i look up the materials including shards and realize i can make it myself for 12k. i then look at the wards and realize the bidding war has taken the price down to 5k just to sell the item off. i realize by just buying it in the wards i save 7k gil. does that give me an incentive to craft or does that give me the incentive to stay away from crafting because it starts looking like a major gil sync?