Abuse for being a new player, any solution?

[Ogulbuk]

Both are forms of bullying.

Edit:
Cant reply because forum rules and me opting to leveling many jobs instead of rushing one to 50, so reply here:

I notice a lot of times the new players have this mentality of being the victim and world is against me, and a sense of entitlement for some reason. Its just culture on JP servers that Duty Finder is usually for quick kills.

I would start by saying that is the point. Why? Because the culture is VERY different. In western MMOs, not just this one, tools like the Dungeon Finder exist to help people find random groups when they don't have the networking to just create a static group. If you want efficiency, you go static/pre-formed. If you want to test your luck, then you gamble to join up with total random strnagers in the DF.

I could see it working out *IF* the JP community is much more friendly and willing to recruit players using the Party Finder, but western culture is that the Party Finder seems to be used nearly exclusively for open world activities or selling EX/Coil runs.

I'm sorry about your experience with getting bullied, but I don't know why you would feel voting to Give up after 15 minutes is bullying or terrible.

It has not been MY experience because I am not high level enough to be doing EX runs or Coils or all that stuff, plus I roll tank and healer. But I been in groups with first time players that would have been devastated had I treated them with those expectations. I had 5 wipes in Haukke Manor the other night, and even got a time running out warning. That is a group of new players that would have had their first run ruined if we just gave up on them.

15 minutes may sound like a long time to take a single boss, but it can be nothing compared to the extremely long wait times DPS classes are forced to endure in the DF, a separate topic but one that complicates the idea of just killing a party and cheating those guys of 2 hours of their lives, just because of 15 minutes of yours. Only point I may vote for disband, kick or just leave is if some are being rude asses badmouthing everyone.

The way I see it, it is better to be stubborn in a run until time runs out or we pull through, resulting in 1-3 players becoming much better at the game. The proportional amount of bad players will keep increasing the more they are bullied and treated like garbage.

[DoubleD]

If you want efficiency, you go static/pre-formed. If you want to test your luck, then you gamble to join up with total random strnagers in the DF.

I'd say it goes both ways. On low populated servers, it's hard to actually form pre-formed parties for dated content. Even newer content the wait for tanks/scholars to join a pre-formed party on PF takes forever. So experienced players use CF.

Understandably, the new players use CF too. Because even if they try to form a pre-formed learning party, it would take forever to get a group for dated content on a low populated server.

Most people on JP server realize the CF is for everyone. The majority are experienced players expecting to get a kill. Also FC size on JP servers are typically much smaller than NA/EU. I'd say the average FC is probably 15-30 people with only 7~20 active members. So it's difficult to make pre-formed with only your FC members too.

So we go in CF expecting to get a kill. But also realize that there is the possibility of new/inexperienced player in there. So we will help and actually give advice, explain mechanics.

Most of the EX-Primals in CF are completely doable with only 1~2 DPS and 1 healer and 1 tank (geared/competent). So even if there is new player, its usually beatable. In the case it isn't, we just initiate give up vote and move on without bashing the player(s) that's causing the wipe.

had 5 wipes in Haukke Manor the other night, and even got a time running out warning. That is a group of new players that would have had their first run ruined if we just gave up on them.

I think the dungeons is a totally different story. Unless the healer absolutely cannot cast heal for some reason, every dungeon is beatable and has mechanics that can easily be explained.

DPS classes are forced to endure in the DF, a separate topic but one that complicates the idea of just killing a party and cheating those guys of 2 hours of their lives, just because of 15 minutes of yours.

I totally understand. But I don't like to put it this way, but the experienced players have already "paid their dues." We spent hours and days trying to beat these EX-Primals / Coils when they first came out, and were vastly, vastly "undergeared" compared to how geared the majority of the player base is now, and would often wipe on the DPS checks. But fought for those clears with long learning parties eventually got the mechanics down pat, and beat them.

I know it sounds cruel, but experienced 6 or 7 players shouldn't have to get "cheated" out of 90 minutes of their lives for one or 2 new players. Just because someone is new doesn't mean that they are entitled to an auto-clear. The new player gets mechanics explained and 15 minutes of practice. Que times might be long, but the new player has to keep trying. Eventually they will get it or get to the point that they can get carried.

And I'm strongly against "buying clears" because what's the point of playing the game then?

Sorry for the long post, but one thing is for sure, is that bullying/namecalling shouldn't exist. There needs to be that proper balance.

Experienced player has to understand that DF has the possibility of New/Inexperienced/No skill player being in there.

The new player need to understand that Experienced players have an agenda, and just go in DF for a clear too, and shouldn’t have a sense of entitlement.

What if it's late at night or before a work shift? Or on lunch break or something? The experience player maybe go in because "Oh let me get one more EX-Titan kill for my Nexus before I go to sleep." Should he have to stay there for more than 15 minutes if it's obvious that the new/inexperienced people in there can't get the kill?

Everyone needs to understand that the DF is for everyone. So experienced player don't need to name-call bully the new player.

New/Inexperienced player need to understand that they are not entitled to a 90 minute lesson just because they are new.

The Vote give up / Disband without name calling or voting to kick a certain player is the best balance I think. I've never been vote-kicked before, but I'm sure it must suck to know that you've been vote-kicked. I would rather play the 15 minutes and disband/give up rather than voting someone out. (Unless harassment, name calling, trolling)

[Lemuria]

The way I see it, it is better to be stubborn in a run until time runs out or we pull through, resulting in 1-3 players becoming much better at the game. The proportional amount of bad players will keep increasing the more they are bullied and treated like garbage.

This needed to be said so badly. I'm so glad to see there are players out there who still actually give a damn about others, the community can be rather toxic at times especially to new players.

I'm very much the same. Unless the team seems to be knowingly bad such as trolling or not even trying to improve, I'm the sort who sticks through until the end. Doesn't matter if I'm tanking, healing or DPSing. I've played every job, and I know the painful waits on many classes and I particularly know how difficult it can be to find a tank. Being a tank myself means there's far more emphasis on my sticking around since there's no telling how long they'll have to wait otherwise.

Patience in this game has worn thin I think. SE has created a game which encourages players to do tasks as quickly as possible so they can do as much of it as possible for drops. This in turn has created a rather unfriendly atmosphere where players constantly try to speed run everything and kick/insult/downright bully anyone they feel is slowing things down for them.

There needs to be some changes in Heavensward to foster a more cooperative community.

I'm not sure why people insist df should be for learning. It's totally ineffective as groups wipe once, give up and people drop.

Because it gives you the one thing that guides don't. Experience. DF is a very fast way to get into a group compared to trying to solo build a party because it pulls in members from across multiple servers. For that reason alone, it's one of the best ways to actually learn, since people learn best by doing.

Sure, a dedicated party might give you more 'bang for your buck', but how long did you spend setting up that party? And how much time could you have spent in DF in the meantime? It's simple mathematics, and that's why DF has almost universally been used for learning the ropes. Furthermore, new players will instinctively use the DF, so you're more likely to be teamed with new players. Why would you try to exclusively use DF for 'advanced' groups when you've no idea what team mates you'll end up with?

[ToriiMiyuki]

This needed to be said so badly. I'm so glad to see there are players out there who still actually give a damn about others, the community can be rather toxic at times especially to new players...

What I'm noticing from this thread and from overall sentiments on US AND JP sides of the story is an overall problem with the games "Mechanics Driven System".

Until there is a more organic method of fighting, we'll forever be fighting 'mechanics' instead of bosses. We'll naturally try to avoid anyone who cannot get an aspect of the mechanic down because it costs the team the entire fight. This is because every single part of the game is focused too much on mechanics.


It's bad fundamentals. (IMO)