Keeper of the Lake (A 4 player raid /sadface)

[TAS]

First let me say that the recently release trailer has me extremely hyped up for not only 2.5, but the expansion as well!

That being said, after seeing the Keeper of the Lake dungeon, while it does look really fun and epic, I can't help but feel a little disappointed to see that it was 4player dungeon.

Coming in from 1.0 and seeing the demolished Imperial Airship I've always wanted to go there and thought it be some kind of epic alliance based content, or at the very least a solid 8 man dungeon. After finishing the 2.0 main story I kind of hoped that the raid would be similar to The Praetorium in terms of scale. (After all, this is Midgardsormr we're talking about! Even if this is just a lesser powered rendition of him, If he could take on the Agrius, surely it would take more than just 4 players to slay him . Hopefully we see him again in 3.0)

Maybe it's just me, but I've grown very tired of 4 player dungeons. They were a little challenging in 2.0 and 2.1 but only because back then you didn't really posses the gear/stats/ilvl which alleviated some of the risk. But, after a while they kind of just lost their allure and became a grindfest/timesink with very little appeal. I know there's coil, and I was in a static that did first and second coil, but my rl schedule has changed to the point where I can no longer commit to multiple tier progression raiding.

I miss 8 player dungeons like the ones in 1.0. The Old Cutter's Cry, Aurum Veil, and Dhzmeal Darkhold were moderately challenging ( especially with the gear available to first time challengers), they had unique puzzles in certain rooms that you actually had to think about in order to gain the full benefit of completing dungeon, and rewards that were inside actually made players want to do them. (Who said all your BiS gear has to be from Poetics or Coil. Maybe even the augmenters could come from these kinds of dungons as well; like what they did in the Syrcus Tower. )

I hope that when Heavensward hits that we see more Dungeons like this. Although my schedule forces me to play on a casual basis, I'm a player that likes to be challenged. I like to play with family and friends in big groups. I love the bonuses that playing in a big group offers. I hope that full parties going onward wont be limited to tier raids like Coil and Alexander or primal battles. I like the prospect of going into a dungeon and having the possibility of not being able to clear all the rooms and bosses on the first attempt; not because the group is bad but because you actually had to take some time and study the layout of the dungeon and boss mechanics.

[Noahlimits]

Maybe it's just me, but I've grown very tired of 4 player dungeons. They were a little challenging in 2.0 and 2.1 but only because back then you didn't really posses the gear/stats/ilvl which alleviated some of the risk. But, after a while they kind of just lost their allure and became a grindfest/timesink with very little appeal. I know there's coil, and I was in a static that did first and second coil, but my rl schedule has changed to the point where I can no longer commit to multiple tier progression raiding.

Considering that most dungeons are 99% trash and 3 bosses, having 8 man parties would essentially be even faster versions of the speed runs we have now. You can't seriously think they should change how dungeons are because you don't have time to commit to progression raiding anymore.

[IcyPrinny]

. . .are you talking to yourself?

[TAS]

. . .are you talking to yourself?

Just stating points to prevent ppl from stating the obvious lol. If you read my post I'm not saying I want a dungeon with trash mobs and 3 bosses. I said I want more of a puzzle element within dungeons that would get full parties to keep on there toes. Coming in from 1.0 I'd say Cutter's Cry and Aurum Veil were the best examples. Each had a challenging element that prevented balls to the wall speed running, you had to actually give the puzzles some thought, and for completionist there were certain things you had to execute to obtain the all the dungeon rewards.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

Story related content will never have anything difficult. It's done this way on purpose so that players can enjoy the story and not be gated.

[TAS]

Story related content will never have anything difficult. It's done this way on purpose so that players can enjoy the story and not be gated.

I would of liked Keeper of the Lake to be like The Praetorium if anything. What I want doesn't have to be connected to story but if we get three four player dungeons every patch, I'm just saying why not make one be a challenging full party dungeon? and since Heavensward is going to have a massive amount of content, why not have just a few of them

[Noahlimits]

I would of liked Keeper of the Lake to be like The Praetorium if anything. What I want doesn't have to be connected to story but if we get three four player dungeons every patch, I'm just saying why not make one be a challenging full party dungeon? and since Heavensward is going to have a massive amount of content, why not have just a few of them

But Praetorium wasn't challenging. I never knew of one group of fresh fifties who didn't clear it.

[Prototype909]

4 man dungeons are no longer challenging because the gear curve has far outstripped their release. Try the latest (Qarn/Sastasha/Snowcloak) without Poetics or Soldiery and see how they feel, at least numerically speaking they are more challenging even if the mechanics are not.

I'm not justifying SE's continued release of content that is basically outgeared and irrelevant at release, but the way they've decided to tier content along with the existence of tome gear basically makes it impossible for them to create a relevant placeholder for dungeon rewards (Niches filled by tomes/24 man raid/Coil) - and as a result they're basically vehicles for tomes instead of something meant to be challenged.

[Volsung]

I would have liked an 8 person at some point, hadnt had one since prae really aside from coil

[TAS]

That's not my point Friend :/ I said I would like for it to be the same scale as Praetorium, not difficulty. I really hope this isn't the only time we challenge Midgardsormr because I believe he's worth more than a light party dungeon. I understand story based content isn't intended to be difficult which Is why I hope they would of went the Praetorium route for it because that would match the scale I feel it needs, but perhaps it would of allowed them to do what they did for the Ultima fight....

*Cough* *Cough* Wandering Minstrel *Cough* *Cough*

But as for future dungeons I would like to see some of what I stated in the op.